Respected Swamiji,
Ram Ram.
While we are in this transitory world, we do need things which will make our life, and that of our dependents, at least bearable. By saying that all wealth, happiness, relatives etc. are transitory, does not make one's life any the easier, if the dishonest person or a worldly clever person is able to look after himself and his family, better than the one who only lives with and for God and suffers extreme poverty or a much lower living for himself and his family. The philosophy professed by our Saints etc. all the time would look quite hypocritical and in effect the religious person is living a 'other worldly' life; in which case he should not get married etc. but must remain a brahmachari and do bhagwad bhajan until he or she gets his moksha or death!
But once one gets married or has responsibility for brothers, sisters, parents etc. one must make money to be able to discharge one's duties to his/her dependents. Of course one should never forget God and must pray to him all the time while discharging one's duties in this world while here.
I would appreciate comments of Swamiji and other bhaktas! Life is a journey and while we are on this journey for example trvelling in a train, should we be hanging outside the compartment or have a seat to sit down for ourselves and our dependents making the journey if not enjoyable but at least bearably comfortable. I think everyone is trying to do this while living! rather than completely relying on God to put each morsel in one's mouth.
So, swamiji kindly profess a more practicable philosophy rather than degrading the world necessities as transitory only but which in fact are also necessary while one lives!
That's how America, Europe and other prosperous countries in the world are attracting everyone, including all the Swamis, etc. who flock here, for what, for Moksha to the ones who fled India for having an honest and better TRANSITORY life here; or the Swamis want to bring them back to India for doing bhakti. Please be somewhat practical and realistic in your sermons rather than giving false ideas and hopes!
JAI RAM JIKI, JAI SHRI RADHAKRISHNJIKI, JAI VEER HANUMAN.
BHAVDIY,
SHER AGRAWAL
- Show quoted text -
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 12:24 PM, sadhak_insight
wrote:
Hari Om
Respected Swamiji ,
We say that what you sow , so shall you reap but in our society we see the most
dishonest and cunning people survive and laxmi showers blessings on them while
people who are honest , pure at heart suffer a lot . They work hard , they don't
exploit anybody , still their life is full of struggle. How long can a person go
on with hard work honestly . if he doesn't get the returns which he deserves ,
isn't it natural for him to get depressed and disillusioned with life , people
and God ? What should be his stand ? From where should he derive strength and
courage to move on with life ?
Vasundhara
-------------------------------------------------------NEW POSTINGShree Hari Ram Ram The greatest injustice is done by our own self. Reliance on and and depending on the transient for our happiness. Laxmiji is "chanchal" and does not stay for long anywhere, yet we look at those who have wealth "Laxmi" with envy, respect, awe and adoration. We are giving importance to the transient things that are bound to leave us. We always expect from the world... because we think "WE ARE DESERVING". We get DEPRESSED AND DISILLUSIONED... because the world is not dancing to our tune and doing justice to us and living up to our expectations. Are we really deserving? Let us all take a sincere and serious inventory of our own selves, and surely we will find out that we are not only not deserving, but God has been showering His mercy and compassionate all along, only out of unconditional love. Please remember these words by Swamiji and once and for all GIVE UP EXPECTING FROM THE WORLD / FROM OTHERS.....You will see the magic there after..... "Sansaar saathi sab swaarth ke hai, pakke virodhi parmarth ke hai
Degaa ne koyi dukh mein sahaara, sun tu kisi ki mat baat pyaara."
"The world and the people in it are selfish, they are extremely opposed to spirituality
No one will support you in your sufferings, therefore don't listen to anyone."
Simply become God's. Meera Das, Ram Ram --------------------------------------------------------I am learning a lot here.We often don't get what we deserve in life.Nevertheless
if we choose to live honorably we do so because it is our way.We don't give to
get back or do so others can return the favor.We give because it is within our
hearts and do because we want to.I am so impressed when I see New Yorkers
volunteer.They are doing this because they care.I think that is the main
focus.We must do because we care not because we expect it back.This is my
American attitude but it is the way I live.I have volunteered and will continue
to volunteer in soup kitchens and senior homes.That is my way.
Lynn
-------------------------------------------------------Madam,
Suffering and prosperity are dual and opposite.If you want wealth there are many rituals to perform.Let us pray god to give that much of wealth sufficient for our family.Wealth is worldly .Do you want wealth or god.Decide your self. our elders use to tell about the hell and the sufferings we undergo after our death.
But I saw many people suffer on this earth for their evil deeds before their death.90% of hell treatment is completed here only.Did not you notice old people asking god to take them away because their suffering here is more rigorous than in hell.Lastly have faith in god He is the Kartha and the bhoktha.
Badri Narayana Miriyala-------------------------------------------------------In my feeling all the souls existing in body do not have equal status. Those who have attained advance position due to their previous scores get back the returns in their same birth (whether good or bad) while rest have to wait for several cycles. This creates the apparent anomaly.Regards to all.Barin Chatterjee
-------------------------------------------------------- PRIOR POSTINGDaughter Vasundhara, Hard work and working honestly is an extra ordinary realization. He who only cooks for himself, for his self consumption is said to incur sin, and is given punishment like a thief. (Gita 3/12 and 3/13). It is better to undergo difficulties and sorrow where there is rememberance of God, than to acquire happiness and worldly things and live downfall from humanity. So be it.
Vineet Sarvottam -------------------------------------------------------Dear Ones Namaste!
Vasundharaji has asked the question that all of us at one time or other in our lives may have asked or wondered or kept it to ourselves!
When you take the shelter of Bhagwat Gita, not merely out of curiosity, but to find out the Truth about living in this world, and meaning of God, all such questions get answered, it is the fact.
Take just one verse, for example, BG 2:47 Karmanyevadhikar........
It means all you can do is to perform actions, results of which is not in your control. This means accept or rather welcome outcomes, take responsibility, learn from them and do the best again and again. When one deeply understands, contemplates on it, at its highest level , one would take actions in themselves as their own fruits/results too, this way you cannot be disappointed being non-dependent on such results.
Be always guided by Dharma and perform those actions which bring greater good including society, family and oneself! Please feel this truth of Gita passionately.
Just suppose that one can do as mentioned, is he/she going to worry about justice for him/her personally? One may fight for justice for all, like Arjuna or more recently Mahatma Gandhi did, wouldn't it be so? After all is said and done, what good is the money, fame, power etc that some people apparently seem to get away with but are so much unhappy?
Gita will convince one firmly that it is the utter Simplicity, Unconditional Love, Joy, Peace, Harmony, Compassion, and appreciation of Beauty, that really matter, and these are inner attitudes, qualities, and understanding that depend on no external objects. I mean it!
Wouldn't it be nice to be non-dependent on "things" and yet be happy, free of conflict and be Grateful for everything one has or doesn't have?
I do realize that some may say "oh, its easy to say that than to face problems of life without these things of the world". But then it is not meant for such people who say this and suffer by thinking "oh these dishonest people get away with everything and are enjoying, whereas people like me are honestly working hard and not getting anywhere". Such thinking in itself is distraction, and robs one of meaningful actions that bring joy, such as study of scriptures, satsangs, association with Mahatmas!
When one sees the Life as Glory of Ishwara, one ceases to complain, plays the assigned role, and apparently goes Home when the Play is over!
Namaskar................Pratap Bhatt-------------------------------------------------------Dear Sadaks,
What Sri Vasundaraji said is very correct: But a small correction- What we SOWED only we are reaping. No doubt. The person who is bad in society but blessed with riches without any strain, is considered that he is heading for dooms day to hell. A person gains more wealth when he does wrong things, because then only he will do more and more sins, due to raise in Ego, fame Etc. Actually everything on earth appears ULTA (Upside down) for normal person. The man struggles is heading for heavens, as his past sins are getting washed away by his sufferings and he gets to heaven very quickly in same birth or atleast in next birth for sure. Where as the man doing all wrong things, gains wealth provided by Dur Devathas, so that his sins are stored in multi folds. But this same bad one gets next birth in very distressed way of life, suffering, begging, disease prone, and remains in slum with poorest facility. This is said in Vivekachudamani. Other way also see: God gets pleased when the one behaves well, honest Etc inspite of poverty and naturally take him to HIS abode putting end to all sufferings once in for all. Now the bad one goes in front of God, Do you think HE will bless him? This earth is Karma boomi- all karmas and Vasanas has to be dissolved to reach the highest state.
B.Sathyanarayan-------------------------------------------------------------------------Hari Om
A superb Q indeed by Vasundharaji ! On something which is part of direct experience and something which is invariably perceived by almost every human being sometime or other during the human life with reference to oneself as well as others.
I will answer in detail as the Q has many significant questions hidden in it ! Sadhaks may freely ask Qs ! It is a very significant spiritual query by Vasundharaji.
But Vasundharaji - What prevents a person in becoming happy right now? Right now !!
Anyway let us address your Qs one by one. Sentence by sentence !
Q We say that what you sow , so shall you reap but in our society we see the most dishonest and cunning people survive and laxmi showers blessings on them while people who are honest , pure at heart suffer a lot .
(Next posting will cover Laxmi aspect of Q)
Ans: At the outset let me state that what is uncontrollable viz. Law of Karma referred by you is not responsible for making a man happy or sorrowful. ( favourable or adverse circumstances only are produced by fate/destiny/ Law of Karma). Your (controllable) wisdom or stupidity is responsible for the same. No result, of whatsoever size/nature or duration , meted out by operation of Law of Karma is capable enough to make you happy or sorrowful- it is a Law !!
By the way, people are "seen" only to be happy/sad or they "actually" are happy/sad?
Any way ! The good people seen by you to be suffering are not suffering due to their present conduct and deeds but are suffering due to their past karmas and deeds. Their present good deeds will give them results in future. Similarly apparently evil doing
people are enjoying due to good deeds done in the past. Their present bad deeds will give them results in future. Every karma gives some immediate results and some future results. Every karma leaves imprints on "svabhav" (habit)- on your antahkarana/chitta. "Svabhav" is important propellor of new karmas.
Further whatever is "seen" by you is mostly with reference to availability/ non availability of material things . But actually, one may not be happy even after having all material possessions and one may not be sorrowful in total absence of material possessions also. Happiness/Sorrow are not linked with material possessions . They are linked with presence or absence of peace inside you. Where is happiness without peace?
In favourable circumstances, a man is proud of himself; he hates those who are inferior to him and is envious of other person's better fortune. All these sentiments, like pride, greed, desires, envy, fear, sense of insecurity, disturb his mental peace. His desires for more and more never allow him to be at peace. On the top of it there is constant fear of losing pleasures and there is constant anxiety of maintaining them. 'Conscience' keeps biting him, if he is not conducting well at present. Thus, externally, he seems happy but actually he is not. His present bad conduct is planting seeds of future sorrows in his antahkarana continuously. No bad conduct can ever go without bad results.
Similarly a poor but good man may externally seem to be suffering but actually his life may be serene and happy, because he has lesser desires and satisfaction with lesser possessions. Peace lies in contentment (satisfaction).
Who enjoys food better? A rich man or poor ? A labourer has a sound sleep, even under a tree but a rich man may not get good sleep inspite of sleeping on a luxury bed. A multi millionaire may be prohibited by doctor to eat sugar or salt even.
Hence possessions and affluence do not make a man happy and their absence does not make him sad. Real happiness consists in serenity and happiness of heart, real sorrow lies in burning sensation in the heart and absence of peace. The most "lakhpatis" ( owners of millions) and "crorepatis". (Owners of billions ) are not "patis" (owners/masters) at all. They are "lakhdass" / "croredass" (slaves of millions/billions) ! They are not masters, they are slaves. How can a slave be ever happy?
And Happiness / Sorrow is controllable and is not output of Law of Karma. You can become happy instantly irrespective of given circumstances/ situations !!
What prevents in becoming happy right now?
Q They work hard , they don't exploit anybody , still their life is full of struggle.
Ans : In the Vana Section of Mahabharat there is an anecdote. One day Draupadi asked Yuddishthara... "You are suffering in exile following righteousness (dharma) , while Duryodhana is leading a luxurious life by enjoying kingdom inspite of his unrighteousness and selfishness. Why?" Yuddishtara replied.... "Those who follow the path of righteousness in order to get pleasures , actually dont know righteousness in the true sense ofthe term. They are just like animals who hanker after pleasures without knowing righteousness. Humanity consists in following righteousness without caring for good/bad circumstances !!
Balance Qs later.
Jai Shree Krishna
Vyas N B
-------------------------------------------------------------------------What Vasundhara says is absolutely true. This is the complaint of most honest
people. But this is the wy the World is. That is what Gautama Buddha realised
and took Sannyas. Then he through meditation realised the Truth of how to get
over this basic problem of life.
Much earlier the Indian philosophers and saints found the approach that is most
suitable to deal with this frustration and struggle in life. So they said:
1. Do not have a desire, become desire free. If you do so, you do not compare
how you struggle and how others enjoy.
Since one has no desire, he is never disappointed for not getting or achieving
anything,
2. Do not get attached to the fruits of your actions. If you do things honestly
do it without expecting any return or benefit from such actions. Since you are
not attached with any good or bad consequences of your actions and doing actions
as you happen to act as per your conscience, you have no regrets,
disappointment.
3. Do not have the self-ego that identifies yourself as an independent
decision-maker or doer of actions. If whatever you do just happens as like the
Sun burns and give light or the earth spins and moves in her orbit or the tree
grows, gives fruits and flowers away and dies or get cut for man's use as wooden
furniture, you do not feel sad or frustrated because all action of yours are not
yours but actions that happens through your body and mind. You do not normally
decide to inhale and exhale: breathing happens independent of your decision
making. All actuions that you happen to be associated with may be thought of as
just happenning and not due to your independent decision-making or your own
doing.
4. Do not think anything in this world is really different from you. All are
the same. Happiness and sorrow are the same. You and your friends and enemies
are the same. All the outcome of the process of the uinverse's continuous
creation, evolution, maintenance and destruction. In all these the ultimate
power exists in some form. This knowl;edge makes you identify yourself with the
ultimate orgin of the entire Creation and the creator. You just become a witness
to whatever is happenng in this world without any compklain or iking or
disliking.
Once you follow all the above, you start livng a very different life than the
normal human life. You have no more the fear of bad things happening to you, you
are not anylonger excited about good things happening to you, you are not any
longer worried about the uncertain future or about death or about meeting your
hunger and other basic needs.
Thus, you just be the witness to whatever is happening observing but unaffected
in your mind.
Very rarely does a person become like that. But those who try progresses to
various extent towards that state of liberation from sensual pleasures, desires,
attachment, ego and differences in forms. He becomes progressively contented
and fine with anything that happens.
Once you move along this approach or path, provided the tendencies or properties
you have inherited genetically from your parents and ancesestors are congential
or supportive of following such a path, you are moving on the path of freedom
from Worldly life.
All this does not mean that you stop working or taking actions. You continue to
do all these as if someone else is doing all these and therefore you are not
affected or attached to such action and their consequences.
Maybe God has destined you to move long such a path or feel unhappy with your
situation because of unjust and unfair manner the World operates. You may remain
beyonf all justice and fairness or you may suffer in your mind with anxiety,
tension, frustration, fear, grievances, and so on. But one day all such
sufferings will reduce or go away altoghther irrespective of what you do and do
not do.
Basudeb Sen--------------------------------------------------------------------------Dear VasundharajiSure if we look at things in terms of short term perspective,it seems that good people are struggling and evil mongers are propspering-but what we are seeing is only of this life-if we think about karma,then we know that people are enjoying or suffering their past karma alone.also, god gives people what they need-people who are greedy etc need to get saturated in that feelign before they become disgusted and give up.for people who are good,he makes them work out their past karmas and rewards them with moksha.this reminds me of a story of krishna and arjuna.once krishna and arjuna,disguised as beggars went a begging-they stopped at a rich man;s house and asked for alms-the rich man said-please go furthur,there is nothing here-krishna blessed him and said-may your riches grow.next,they visited a very very poor old man who lived in a hut and asked for alms-the poor man brought waht little he had and gave them joyously-krishna told him-may this hut burn away soon.upon leaving the house arjuna asked krishna hwo he could bless the rich man with wealth and the poor man this way-krishna replied-the rich man wants more and more wealth-let him take more human births to realise me-as for the poor man-that hut alone is standign between him and me.strange are the ways of god and if we look at it from only one perspective,it may seem like he is rewarding evil people and punishing good ones but quite the contrary!hari smaranaramaa Sreenivasan
------------------------------------------------------------------- In kaliyuga, the wicked are rewarded and the good suffer. The reality is however different. We are suffering or prospering not due to our karmas in our present life but our past life karmas also. So the ways of Parmatma are mysterious but one can say this with conviction that those who do good karmas will find their paths smoothened while those who accumulate bad karmas will meet their nemesis sooner or later.Hari Shanker Deo-------------------------------------------------------------------------Dear Vasundhara,All human laws are, properly speaking, only declaratory; they have no power over the substance of original justice.
Edmund BurkeI understand your frustation. Yes, it appears as a rule, that the dishonest alone succeed. But, just think for a few more minutes and answer the question whether the Supreme Being or Parama Atma has anything to do with work + Result equations of material world. If one is keen on material success of this world, he/she should adopt the techniques suitable to that goal. The methods of obtaining the superior and permanent happiness are different from the methods applicable for gaining materially. When one aims for the superior things, he/she is bound to suffer materialistically. Please refer to 12.5 of Bhagavad Gita (BG). More elaborately, one who aims for the ultimate finds little use of mundane benefits and hence tends to ignore earning them. The so called Veda is divided into two parts. The first part is devoted to methods (instruments) of optimally exploiting the Prakriti. It is purely materialistic. Even the Svarga it promises is of temporary duration. Kindly refer to 9.20 and 21, BG. It, this part of Veda called Poorva Meemaamsa, has been declared unfit to take any one to permanent Bliss, cf. Kathopanishad, Slokas 11.48, 52-55 of BG. On the other hand, the second part of Veda, the Vedanta (Upanishat) does not take one to Parama Atma but helps you to understand the properties and Gunas of Parama Atma and gives you some possible methods of realizing IT and enjoying the realization. This enjoyment is permanent.If one aims for pleasure and happiness, he should adopt that path (symbolically described as Krishna Gati or dark path), else Sukla Gat the bright path (cf. ch.8 of BG). In the Maha Bharata war which was just a pretext to elucidate these truths, observe carefully what Krishna has done to win the war. If you can read sanskrit original or the Telugu translation (the part by Tikkana) pay special attention to the chiding handed over by Krishna to Yudhishtara (Dharma Raja, in Telugu) In Salya Parva, when Dharmaja wanted to show off his magnanimity by offering Duryodhana the choice of weapon and opponent too. Unfortunately this part is often ignored by the readers. Maha BHarata and Ramayana are read like stories but not as Dharma Saastra. Pity.One gentleman about sixty years back wanted to be recognized as Messiah of peace and we the Indians have been suffering due to his Keerti Kandooti for these sixty years. Country is material. It should not be mixed with non material objectives.This most prevalent misconception and worse frustration. I apologize if I did wrongKrishna ---------------------------------------------------------
GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES: PLEASE -
FOR QUESTIONER
1. The questions as far as possible must be relevant to Gita, relevant to
Dharma, relavant to other scriptures and relevant to motivate Sadhaks to take up
spiritual path
2. The Questioner must commit to daily Gita study
3. Only one question at a time.
4. Question must be brief, to the point and relevant to the group's primary aim
of deeper understanding of Gita.
GITA TALK GROUP GUIDELINES for RESPONDER: PLEASE -
1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.
2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible.
3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the extent that they
further help in understanding the Gita shlokas
4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.
5. Focus on subject at hand only.
6. Do not include links to the other sites; personal information (Ph #, address
etc) or personalize message to particular person
7. All responses may not be posted and moderator at his discretion, may modify
the posting.
8. Please keep in mind novices, youth, westerners, non-sectarian audience. Limit
the use to Sanskrit words and provide English word bracketed.
MODERATOR
Ram Ram
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
Post message: gita-talk@yahoogroups.com
Subscribe: gita-talk-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Unsubscribe: gita-talk-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
__._,_.___Messages in this topic (3) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Photos All past 2775+ messages are accessible and searchable at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gita-talk/
20,100+ sadhakas
Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required)
Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional
Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity 167New MembersVisit Your Group Give BackYahoo! for GoodGet inspiredby a good cause.Y! ToolbarGet it Free!easy 1-click accessto your groups.Yahoo! GroupsStart a groupin 3 easy steps.Connect with others..
__,_._,___
--
SHER SINGH AGRAWAL
