Tuesday, March 31, 2009



Fw: Remember this when you go to Vote..

Bharat Gajjar Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 2:27 PM

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaurang Vaishnav
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 3:04 PM
Subject: Remember this when you go to Vote..

Please circulate to your contacts across Bharat.



UPA will cost India economic superstardom

March 25, 2009

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The current global crisis is potentially an inflection point that marks the transition from an Anglo-American dominance to an Asian dominance in world economic affairs.

Certainly, there is a startling turnaround in the fact that China holds $2 trillion in US Treasury securities and therefore lectures the Americans about running their economy -- it feels like only yesterday when the shoe was on the other foot.

Another indicator is China's aggressive fire-sale purchases of commodities, including oil, copper, iron ore, et cetera from all over the world. 'Have money, will buy' is China's mantra.

But where is India in this 'Asian century'? Alas, India has once again fumbled a golden opportunity to rise to economic superstardom.

Given the profligate spending of the United Progressive Alliance and its self-proclaimed galaxy of economic geniuses, India now sports perhaps the highest deficit of any country: about 13 per cent, a far cry from the 5 per cent that the UPA has been promising us all along.

Yet again, the Congress has successfully brought India back to the verge of the 'Nehruvian rate of growth' of 2-3 per cent, which is an economic crime against humanity, imposing abject poverty on 250 million people.

After sixty years of Congress misrule, India has most of the world's poor people, and some of the worst health and nutrition indicators, even worse than much poorer sub-Saharan Africa. This is truly a crime and a national shame.

It is evident that India's wonderful 'hybrid economy' gives the country the very worst of, both, capitalism and communism. For, when the world was going through a capitalistic feeding frenzy, India, not being sufficiently open to trade and capital flows, did not benefit. In contrast, China, taking full advantage of its World Trade Organisation accession, amassed a singular fortune, and uplifted large numbers of its poor.

So India didn't grab that opportunity. One would think, then, that the obverse would be positive -- that is, when the excess leverage hit the fan, isolated India would not be affected very much. To some extent this is true: since India is a tiny trading power (accounting for perhaps 1 per cent of world trade in goods), the precipitous decline in demand from the West has not affected India anywhere near as much as it has hit China.

That is India, a slow and steady tortoise to China's flashy hare. In fact, this is why commentators are crowing about the alleged virtues of the dirigiste Indian State and its (usually deadening) hand on the levers of the economy.

In comparison to the formerly-lionized-and-now-reviled Alan Greenspan's laissez-faire Federal Reserve in the United States, so the theory goes, the virtuous Reserve Bank of India [Get Quote] has been able to protect India from Anglo-American buccaneer investment bankers.

If only that were more than a half-truth!

The reality is closer to the way Pay Commission reports are implemented in India -- only one half of the recommendations is implemented. Pay Commissions routinely suggest a) reducing headcount, b) increasing working hours, c) tying salary increments to productivity, and d) increasing base salaries substantially. Of course 'a', 'b', and 'c' are ignored, and only vote-winning 'd' is implemented at large cost to the taxpayer.

Similarly, it is true that Anglo-Americans were unable to dump toxic mortgages on the Indian banking system. Unfortunately, India's politicians, including an alleged 'Dream Team' of economics mavens, have done the dastardly deed entirely on their own through almost Rs 200,000 crore (Rs 2,000 billion) of deficit spending, which will result in crushing inflation with a vengeance in the near future.

This in the name of programmes for the 'common man': such as the NREGS (National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme), the waiver of farm loans, and the windfall for bureaucrats.

Rs 70,000 crore (Rs 700 billion) for the NREGS, which, if we had truth-in-advertising, should be renamed 'National Employment Guarantee Scheme for Party Cadres', because 95 per cent of the funds ended up in their pockets (I quote Rajiv Gandhi who said 20 years ago that 90 per cent of the funds were pilfered en route, and surely they are more innovative now).

Rs 70,000 crore for the waiver of farm loans, most of which went to rich landlords already flush with untaxed agricultural income that has led to a boom in consumption in villages. Rs 30,000 crore (Rs 300 billion) spent on the corrupt, do-nothing bureaucracy. All this is money that the Congress printed out of thin air.

Not to speak of the billions-worth of counterfeit currency introduced by the friendly neighbourhood printing presses in Karachi.

One ocean-going container full of Rs 500 and Rs 1,000 notes from Pakistan -- by all accounts very good copies -- was seized at the Cochin port, which means hundreds of other containers could have gotten through.

Thus, even though there is a deflationary trend -- especially in real estate after the bubble burst, and it too had been propped up the same unaccounted-for money in the politician-civil servant-criminal nexus -- the long-term prospects are of raging inflation, as this Rs 200,000-plus crore chases limited goods.

Interestingly, the US is heading down the same path by announcing that it will inject $1 trillion in the system via Fed purchases of long-term Treasury securities. In other words, they too printed money. The reaction was swift -- the dollar tumbled, naturally.

Lost in all the hoopla about India's inflation coming down to 0.44 per cent recently is the fact that 12 per cent inflation for months has imposed a high-water-mark pricing on practically every manufactured good. Prices have gone up by 50 per cent in many cases; they have stubbornly remained there, and the chances of them coming down are nil.

In India, peculiarly, prices go up, but they never come down. This must be a 'feature' of the chimerical 'hybrid economy'. The only things that have come down are agricultural commodities like grain, and post-bubble real-estate.

Thus, once again, India has managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. China will go on to make it the 'Chinese century', and India will always have unrealized potential.

India's curse, (noted economist) Jagdish Bhagwati once observed, is its clever economists. This has been proven with a vengeance in the last five years.

Rajeev Srinivasan


Monday, March 30, 2009


दोहों में व्यंग्य

मैंने पूछा (NETA BOLA) साँप से दोस्त बनेंगे आप।
नहीं महाशय ज़हर में आप हमारे बाप।।

कुत्ता रोया फूटकर यह कैसा जंजाल।
सेवा नमकहराम की करता नमकहलाल।।

जीव मारना पाप है कहते हैं सब लोग।
मच्छर का फिर क्या करें फैलाता जो रोग।।

दुखित गधे ने एक दिन छोड़ दिया सब काम।
ग़लती करता आदमी लेता मेरा नाम।।

बीन बजाए नेवला साँप भला क्यों आय।
जगी न अब तक चेतना भैंस लगी पगुराय।।

नहीं मिलेगी चाकरी नहीं मिलेगा काम।
न पंछी बन पाओगे होगा अजगर नाम।।

गया रेल में बैठकर शौचालय के पास।
जनसाधारण के लिए यही व्यवस्था ख़ास।।

रचना छपने के लिए भेजे पत्र अनेक।
संपादक ने फाड़कर दिखला दिया विवेक।।

24 जून 2006


अनुभूति में श्यामल सुमन की रचनाएँ -

नए दोहे
नेता पुराण

कविताओं में-
सिफ़र का सफ़र

दोहों में-
दोहों में व्यंग्य
चली सियासत की हवा नेताओं में जोश
कुछ अबतक बेहोश हैं शेष यहाँ मदहोश

दल सारे दलदल हुए नेता करे बबाल
किस दल में अब कौन है पूछे लोग सवाल

मुझ पे गर इल्जाम तो दो पत्नी को चांस
हार गए तो कुछ नहीं जीते तो रोमांस

जनसेवक राजा हुए रोया सकल समाज
कैद में उनके चँदनी, कोयल की आवाज

नेता और कुदाल की नीति-रीति है एक
समता खुरपी सी नहीं वैसा कहाँ विवेक

जहाँ पे कल थी झोपड़ी देखो महल विशाल
घर तक जाती रेल भी नेता करे कमाल

दग्ध हृदय पर श्वेत-वस्त्र चेहरे पे मुस्कान
नेता कहीं न बेच दे सारा हिन्दुस्तान

सच मानें और जाँच लें नेता के गुण चार
बड़बोला, झूठा, निडर, पतितों के सरदार

पाँच बरस के बाद ही नेता आये गाँव
नहीं मिलेगा वोट अब लौटो उल्टे पाँव

जगी चेतना लोग में लिया इन्हें पहचान
गले सुमन का हार था हार गए श्रीमान
३० मार्च २००९

इस कविता पर अपने विचार लिखें दूसरों के विचार पढ़ें

अंजुमन। उपहार। कवि । काव्य चर्चा। काव्य संगम। किशोर कोना। गौरव ग्राम। गौरवग्रंथ। दोहे। रचनाएँ भेजें
नई हवा ।पाठकनामा ।पुराने अंक । संकलन ।हाइकु ।हास्य व्यंग्य ।क्षणिकाएँ । दिशांतर ।समस्यापूर्ति

© सर्वाधिकार सुरक्षित
अनुभूति व्यक्तिगत अभिरुचि की अव्यवसायिक साहित्यिक पत्रिका है। इस में प्रकाशित सभी रचनाओं के सर्वाधिकार संबंधित लेखकों अथवा प्रकाशकों के पास सुरक्षित हैं। लेखक अथवा प्रकाशक की लिखित स्वीकृति के बिना इनके किसी भी अंश के पुनर्प्रकाशन की अनुमति नहीं है। यह पत्रिका प्रत्येक माह की 1–9 –16 तथा 24 तारीख को परिवर्धित होती है





[gita-talk] Re: How can I Remember God and by True Sentiments for Attaining Salvation?

sadhak_insight Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 7:05 PM
Reply-To: gita-talk@yahoogroups.com
To: gita-talk@yahoogroups.com

I am in search of devotee of God by true & heartfelt sentiments which is rare
but is somewhere -Gita 7(19).

God is easily attainable-Gita 8(14) by thinking/remembering-Gita 4(11). My
message is how can I think of God & remember God by true sentiments so that i
can get salvation at the end at least as per Gita 8(5).

pawan kumar singhal
Ram Ram

Shree Hari

Ram Ram

So how is one to remember Bhagwaan at their last breath? How? We could be the worst of sinners, yet at the very last breath if Bhagwaan is remembered.. He has guaranteed us that we will attain HIM !!! How extra-ordinary ! What a special favor ! A special concession! He has granted us this special grace... only out of His compassion !... now the SECRET ,,,, HOW ????

Swamiji has made is simple for us - VASUDEVA.... There is NONE OTHER!!! NO ONE ELSE !!! DOOSERO NE KOYI !!!

Now how can your mind not be in Bhagwaan? Wherever your mind goes, your thoughts go, your senses go, there HE IS....... There HE IS ! when there IS only Bhagwaan (Giridhar Gopal, The Beloved), where else will your mind be at the last breath?...The ONE that has manifested in MANY, where will He be able to hide? It is all Vasudeva! Because He has said so in Gita 7:19 - VASUDEVA SARVAM. In Gita 6:30 too, He makes it crystal clear... He who sees Me in all, and sees all in Me, for him, I AM NEVER OUT OF SIGHT. Just like when there is snow everywhere, then where can the snow hide? Even if there is snow hidden behind snow, only snow will be seen. Similarly when everything is a manifestation of God's divine form, then how can God hide? Whatever we see, think, taste, smell, feel, whatever... IS ONLY HIM! Where can HE hide? Now can the last thoughts be anything other than Him, our Beloved One?

Pawanji and all sadhaks, do you all get this, what Gitaji, Saints, Swamiji has revealed to us? This is an extra-ordinary thing! Swamiji said it is VILAKSHAN ! Now is there any doubt about our attaining God? Anyone that is unclear about this?

Meera Das

Ram Ram



One-ness, where nought was but itself

Did in it's desire for expression

Manifest itself as the soundless sound

The sound of AUM

AUM, the seven notes singing in silence

AUM, the beauteous beholding of the inner eye

AUM, the honeyed delight of the Virgin tongue

AUM, the soft caress of the eternal Being

And the first fragrance of Non-being.

AUM, the One true expression of the Eternal Reality

That leads the Second back

To the Nothingness

Which is



one day, it was, that nari came to narinder ,

nothing unusual………. excitedly , he came………..

" narinder, narinder, narinder,

I have discovered the secret of joy ………….

Whenever you begin any thought ….do it with the utterance of `aum'

aum, silence, awareness of silence

Aum the soundless sound


this utterance, narinder, you may utter

silently !!! "

and narinder said " Amen "

"amen", said narinder

And,………… for a moment there was nought but silence ............

time was no more ................

only joy

joy of being

no word, no sound ...............

only the silent hummmmm of aum ………mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…….

And, yet another day, nari came to narinder , nothing new, of course ..............

" narinder, narinder, " he said excitedly " when ever you end a thought

whenever you end a thought, do it with the utterance of 'aum.......'

'aum', the soundless sound, Silence ........... awareness of silence

the joy of silence ..........

The Joy of Meditation

.............. i tell you, narinder, this is the secret of remaining in Joy "

and narinder said " Amen "

for a moment there was nought but silence .... time was no more .... only joy

joy of being

no word, no sound ............... only the silent hummmmm of aum ………mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…….

aum ...........


Please quote the verse from bhagavadgita as it is. Then explain in english. That what you have been doing allalong. I enjoy the gita verses a lot. Also the readers will be familiar with the holybook when you include the sanskrit verse( written in english). I admire you all for doing god's work.




Shree Hari
As regards Maya- we only accepted the affinity with inert. We- means Self ! Now, once we accepted bondage, means, Maya - we only can leave it.
Very clear reply of Vyas N B on the line of Swamiji is acceptable to me. I will try to accept affinity with God (Gita 15/7).
I feel the grace of God(Gita 5/29) on 07.03.2009
Ram Ram
pawan singhal
Dear Sadaks,
Please bear with me. As Sri Pratabji said that several births discouraging, it is true. Hope to attain realization may reduce or thought futile. But this is not my statement of attaining GOD in several births, but it is Sri Krishna` s in Bagavath Geetha. But in same Bagavath Geetha Sri Krishna also tells that if HE wishes HE can uplift one in the same birth. Contradictory statement of Bagavan. Here sadaks can completely rely upon the second statement of Bagavan and reach HIM straight away. Bagavan has said two methods
of reaching HIM. One right now. Another over several births. Sri Pratabji and Sri Vyasji will explain much better than me to Sadaks.
Jai Sri Krishna
Shree Hari
Ram Ram
Our inner sentiments (Bhaav) drive everything! Also our anubhava (experience/knowledge) tell us everything - the Truth (if we pay attention to it). We are experiencing abhaav (asat, perishability, changing, unreal) all the time, but choose to ignore our anubhava... If we give importance to our experience at this VERY MOMENT, liberation it shall be. Unfortunately, every thing we do is AGAINST our ANUBHAVA. We simply DO NOT WANT TO ACCEPT our Anubhava. Gita clearly states - SELF cannot derive pleasure from ASAT (perishable)... yet entire life is dedicated to just doing that alone. (Gita 13:31).

Gita and Swamiji have made this PERFECTLY CLEAR - Till there is desire there is interest in the world. Once the desire goes, the interest goes. Once the interest goes - you become selfless. When you become selfless, your sorrows go, and once your sorrows go - you attain bliss (salvation, realization, benediction, moksha, Truth, God, Beloved, SatChitAnand). Whatever you may call this state. Therefore LEAVE THE DESIRE FOR ASAT. Simply DONOT GO AGAINST YOUR ANUBHAV NO MATTER WHAT, ACCEPT IT AS TRUTH. Where is the DOUBT now?

The recipe is clearly laid out. Simply FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS !!!!

But if you still do not want to follow the directions, continuing to add poison to the ingredients, then simply CALL OUT TO GOD FOR HELP!!! HEY NAATH ! HEY MERE NAATH ! HELP ME !

Only we humans have the ability to pay attention and respect our ANUBHAV(experience/knowledge). That is all there is to it!

Meera Das

Ram Ram



Time is just a thought which references a point in the past, and thought arise in ............

How True , Partap jee, how true !

what to do ....... ah.................... what should poor nari do..............?

The natkhat is the Vasudeva Sarvam

and Time is only a thought ................ no reality !

how impotent narinder becomes , while Krishna plays and plays ............ ah !

Beloved Krishna

In the game of twoness

You smile as One-ness.


In the bliss of one-ness

You dance as two-ness!

And, it seems to poor narinder


Only Loving is real; You and I false

You are false, Govinda, You are false

You do not exist, nor I

Only Love exists

But even so,

and narinder cannot help loving YOU !

When I say ‘I love You Govinda’, why do you smile?

Love is real

Love alone is real


In its mad dance of loving

It chooses to become for one moment

You , The Lord of Lords

And I, Your eternal plaything, your slave, your beloved

Pining and yearning for You

Ecstatically seeking oblivion

In Your look

In Your smile

In your touch.

Ah, Krishna ! You are NOT fair !




Ah, my friends, once narinder ventured to ask Krishna what Love is, and how to love God, who is Love !

"O Beloved,….. Love, the mystery, the mystery that you are Beloved, how can it ever be `known'! How can anyone ever know and understand it! Love is Un–knowable! You, my Beloved, are un-knowable. Only you know yourself by yourself… only you reveal to your own Self , the mystery of Love and Loving !"

And........... Thus Spake Krishna

"O narinder…. You can not know Love, but you can be Love, you can only Be. Be that Love. Be love. And, narinder, when you are Love, you `know' Love. You know what Love IS.

Ah ! Narinder, who wish to capture Love in words, let us share a moment … let us become Love, This Moment Now. The love, which is the opposite of `hate' is not what Love is . The love, which embraces hate, which co-exists along with `hate', is Being, is Love .

You can not know love ….. you cannot `do' love…. But you can feel Love. You can be Love. Love is not a `doing'.Love is a happening.Love is not a ' thought'...... thinking. Love is a feeling.

Love is your Being, your whole-ness, your crying need not to withhold anything from anyone, nor inflict anything on anyone.

A million words may be written about love. But if you have not felt it, you have not known it as your own Being-ness---------------you know nothing about Love! And, …. if you have felt it … felt it as your blood, bone and marrow, as your breath and consciousness, as your whole Being, as that, without which, you feel ` not alive'…. Then, narinder, you need no words, no affirmation, no proof, no knowledge…. You need no discussion, no analysis. Love is sufficient unto Love .

Ah ! Narinder…. You are love infinite. Infinite and choiceless; and you are the creator , sustainer and destroyer.Blessed by Love,you create in love. In Love, you sustain, and destroy too… in Love. All your doing, all your knowing , which in truth is of the nature of ` not –doing'… and `not – knowing, is nothing but Love.
O nari, what indeed can be said of love! Only Love can know what love is! …….Not I …. not I … not I…. Love is `not I '
And yet, O narinder, Love and I, I and Love, are not –two. I indeed am Love!"

"Thank You, Beloved , thank you for leading Nari to Yourself for understanding of Love,"
This, now Narinder prays, "O Beloved….. lead me, O Lord, to the presence of those, who have known Love … who are love… who are Krishna … who you are ! Because, Govinda, my heart and soul are scorched by the heat of Love! And the fire can only be extinguished by the ambrosial showers of love from your Bhaktas, who have known Love, who are Love… who you yourself are! "

Jai Krishna, Jai Jai !


===================================================PRIOR POSTING

Hari Om

Let me reflect upon Vasudev Sathyanarainji's messages as discussed upon by various sadhaks, including by Shri Pratapji. Beautiful brain storming arguments. There are 2 things in substance. One- Bahunaa Janamnaamante (BG 7:19) and another who binds whom? Maya to Purusha or vice versa.

Vasudev Sathyanarainji is absolutely right. Pratapji is also not wrong. Yes after many many births ! After a long long series of lying into various wombs of different species of mothers- one gets ultimately the human life. We all have got it. For all of us this can be the LAST life- God is attained for all of us. We simply have to believe this fact. That is all.The moment you get human life- Paramatma is attained. (Prarabdha pahale racha, peechhe racha shareer- first our object has been finalised, later we got human body) You only have to realise that! Matter ends. In human life only, you can presume He is attained and realise that. (this can be, actually, the 'anta' -last- of all life forms, because the chain started from here only- from a human birth in the past).. Here only you can say - He is attained. NO WHERE ELSE ! There is no question of "when" ! Now !! In this very human birth and always/ever - so long we remain human ! How TIME comes in between ? What poor time has got to do with it? TIME has already turned in our favour as we got human birth.

As regards Maya- we only accepted the affinity with inert. We- means Self ! Now, once we accepted bondage, means, Maya - we only can leave it. Who else can leave it? Who else accepted it? Maya means- that which does not exist. Self means- that which exists. When Self exists and Maya does not exist, the deliberation has to begin and end with Self only. The acceptance was by us. The renunciation has to be by us. What poor non existent Maya has got anything to do with bondage? Maya has no capacity to bind us. It does not exist. We keep talking/thinking/ relying upon it through mind/time/ignorance type of webs. Where is Maya to bind us? Something must exist at first place to bind us !! Leave shelter of mind- you are free ! Where is bondage thereafter?

Hope the above answers the questions raised and the essence of delibreations. What can be the role of mind or time there?

I have not read full series of arguments (read today only, to the extent trail is there on my BB - full trail is not there). May be I missed something from beginning. Let me know if I have. I will clarify/amend.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


Loving Divine,
In recent post, I started a story - tree is holding me, & left to be told some other time; I think this is a perfect place :-)
A guru had 2 disciples - younge (Y) & older (O). Guru: I am going to die soon so tell me what will you do after I am gone. O: I'd continue my search for God following your teachings while remaining brahmachari (celibate). Y: I'd continue my search for God remaining in family as my parents would like. Guru blessed both but called O & requested to keep an eye on Y & died.

Few years later O visited Y & was happy to see him doing sadhana while remaining married. Few years passed, O visited Y again, but the picture is different. Y is in the midst of maya with his wife and kids and has almost forgotten God. O reminded him of God & promise given to guru. Y promised to start his sadhana & next time when O comes, to join him in sanyas as his kids would have been settled.

Few years later O came back to take Y for sanyas. Y said he can't leave now as his son's wife had delivered a baby (B) & no one takes better care of B then he. Let it grow a little, when B goes to school he will join O. Y understood the problem.

Next day early morning Y heard someone is shouting for help. O ran outside, saw that O has hugged a tree tightly & shouting for help claiming that this tree is not letting him go. O claimed over n over that this tree is holding him so tight that despite of his trying he can't free himself! Y understood the message & left immediately with O for to complete his sadhana for God realization!

We claim all the time that maya is holding us back but it is not true, we are holding on to maya and that's where the problem is. Nothing is wrong w/maya. Maya is as eternal as God himself but trying to catch hold of shadow is ignorance. As Swamiji has said - holding on requires efforts, letting go doesn't... No need to leave the house, no need to go anywhere, God is present everywhere so do your duty but in God conciousness w/o attachment, that's all. It is that simple. Baba always says - remain compassionately detached. Even though you leave your family & go to jungle, maya will follow you as you are carrying it in your head.

humble regards,
always at Thy Holy Feet
Manjula Patel
Dear Sadaks,
Thus answered Sri Vyasji, ""Na me bhaktah pransyati? There Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to take a vow that there will never be a downfall of His devotee. He asks Arjuna to take oath !! Because Krishna ( God) can deviate from HIS oath but not from the oath of HIS Bhakta"". I liked to hear from Vyasji though I knew it. Now who is Baktha? Defenition of Baktha?
Slowly developing love (Desire for reading divine books, listening recorded divine lectures, meeting and spending time with Saadhus, sitting alone and craving for GOD) is one who is Baktha. Bagavan says, Kamiyartha Baktha, Prema Baktha, Niskama Prema Baktha. Only in Bakthi Marg, Bagavan takes over HIS Bakthas from start (Person who is desiring for GD0). In Sanyasa Marg or in Yog Marg Bagavan remains wittness, because in these 2 Margs Sanyasi or Yogi does have somewhere in a corner of his mind (Without his awareness) that he is Kartha for Sanyas or Yog. Bagavan said in Geetha that Sanyasi or Yogi fails several times before reaching HIM. Example: Sanakathis (Sri Bhramaji Manasa Puthras) fell pray to anger at doors of Vaikunt in cursing Jaya and Vijaya. But in case of Baktha behaving with Krodh/Kama/Loba etc HE takes care to rectify and make him realize. So many cases are there.
Jai Sri krishna



Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
One more point I want to share on Sathyanarayanji's post on Geeta saying "that
man does attain me in one of several births", so God is already attained but
when is the question(time factor).
If we look closely, that which we really are, Atman-Self-Consciousness never
takes birth nor dies. Our ignorance as desires, latent tendencies-vaasanas
acquired while in physical body forms subtle body(sanskaras) and it merges with
cosmic subtle body or mass karmas of all beings upon death. It gets recycled
through another body and ignorance continues its journey further until it
realizes its true nature in some human birth. So that which we truly are never
takes re-birth. Thus by the time one realizes many births may have gone, but
only in ignorance, like in a dream! This is what I think Krishnaji may have
Upon realizing Atman how does it matter how many births have gone? Again we say
this to emphasize the immediacy of the Realization. From the point of view of
mind, time is there, but time has not played any part in realization.
How can it, it is not real. It is a simplistic and pragmatic assumptions. Even
an hour by clock time is experienced differently by different people, some find
it too long when perceived boring, some find it too quick when perceived
interesting! Time which is of Maya is flowing, and can never be experienced by
mind. Thus what we call NOW is not mind's experience, it is mind's concept of
zero duration! Like in a dream we can experience whole life in few minutes, but
upon waking up, there was no reality! So by saying it takes several births to
realize we don't convey any value to those on the path of inquiry, on the
contrary it discourages.
Besides, several births are only almost zero second to God, whose Grace bestows
Realization to those who are in fit to receive in His judgment!

Namaskar.............Pratap Bhatt
Dear sadaks,
Sri Vyasji has given nice explanation to my query BG 9:31- Na me bhaktah
pransyati? Thank you.
Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Dear Sathyanarayanji, please accept my pranaam, you need not beg pardon! we are
only exchanging our understanding! Let us be in the spirit of oneness as you
said and freely exchange!
Let me do the best I can to clarify. "Does Maya bind us or we are binded by
Maya. That is, "is Maya making us to be bonded or are we getting ourselves into
Maya", you asked.
Maya binds us as long as we don't inquire who we truly ARE! We consider us as
body-mind limited entity and it continues as long as we allow it to go
unchecked! We do have freedom for this inquiry! We can be free of such
ignorance, and stop Maya at individual level. However, if we don't exercise this
freedom in this birth, we continue to live in ignorance of Maya! So, Maya has
power only if we give it to! Maya stays away from True Bhaktas you give examples
of many times! Those bent on inquiry are Bhaktas of TRUTH!
Maya also refers to illusion at cosmic level, is universal for all of us! For
example, rainbow is illusion in the sense seven colors are seen as magnificent
bow(of Rama as some say) just from rain water and sunlight, or mirrage seen in
desert etc etc. Even when we know the truth we continue to see Rainbow and
mirrages, however, it cannot bind us anymore, on the contrary it is joy all the
Stories in our puranas are to emphasize the importance of stepping out of Maya,
and some dramatization always help in such stories. Narada has this big ego of
winning Maya, so, he was fooled is one such example!
When we look at the world and take objects as real, not knowing it as Ishwara,
its reality, it is due to Maya principle, it is said. It means, Maya is not a
problem, but to consider it REAL is the ignorance! If Maya can end, it is
appearance and not permanent, that which appears but is not, Permanent is THAT
which never ceases to be. BG 2:16.
Namaskar...............Pratap Bhatt


Shri Hari
I belong to God -I accepted it first of all. One could see who has gyan & other
could not see who has agyan. I and my-ness is main obstacle which i find
difficult to conquer to get peace(Gita 2.71). I am trying as sadhak.
Ram Ram
pawan singhal


Thank you all for your insights and co-operation. On having satsang with
devotees of Swamiji in Vrindavan (Shri Nawal Ram ji and consulting Shri
Rameshji Maharaj by telephone), I learned the following -

Normally when one thought in mind disappears another comes. Mind's nature to be
in constant search. Search of worldly matters and things or Search of divinity.
Sometime as we see people having both partly this and partly that. Partly on
worldly matters remains only when you give room to it. Slowly reduce your
activity on worldly matters and social obligations and shift to Sat Sangh,
Solitude, contemplation, listening lectures, visiting temples Etc. The mind will
automatically divert from world to divinity to great extent. Once retired
renounce and spend time fully in divinity. The mind longing automatically takes
place. Mind transformation happens by God` s will.

Jai Sri Krishna
pawan singhal


Hari Om

It is so divine to read message of Catherine to Sadhaks. Nothing more needs to
be done. Nothing more needs to be known. Nothing more needs to be got. Such is
the power in what she is practicing. You have caught the nerve of Satsanga-
Sadhika Catherine. My pranaams to you.

Sathyanarainji ! Are you referring Sir to BG 9:31- Na me bhaktah pransyati?
There Lord Krishna asks Arjuna to take a vow that there will never be a downfall
of His devotee. He asks Arjuna to take oath !! Because Krishna ( God) can
deviate fron His oath but not from the oath of His Bhakta, viz Arjuna. It is a
guarantee of highest order by Paramatma to the Sadhaks. If you turn towards Me ,
you shall never fall thereafter ! Krishna had, before Mahabharat War had taken
an oath that he shall not lift weapon in the war. When Bheesma Pitamah knew,
then he took the oath that I will make Krishna lift the weapon. Krishna forgot
about His oath and ensured that Bhishma Pitamah's oath is protected and lifted
the wheel of a broken Ratha ( chariot) and ran after Bhisma. . Such is the God,
Dear Sadhaks.

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B


Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
Dear Sathyanarayanji, you need not beg pardon. We are exchanging our
understanding on this wisdom platform! God is really playing by being us in our
roles, I am sure of this as you are! I am not attached to what I share with
sadhakas, and never insist it is the only truth!
It has and is helping me to go deep within to feel the hidden, invisible
Presence and put few words around it as if finger is pointing at Moon. Just as
finger cannot touch the moon, mind cannot conceive the Presence, SELF! This may
sound like bad news. but the good news is: since Self is already what "I" is,
ever attained! So "I" cannot attain "SELF", just as eyes cannot see eyes even as
they see everything. The Grace points to the eyes "my dear, the fact that you
see everything is the proof of your Being more than what you see, so stop
searching and just be!". The eyes heed and realize, not that they will see
themselves ever, but the need to see themselves disappear altogether! Mind is
pointed the same truth "you cannot see God separate from you, You ARE IT!
It is the same here, all attempts to attain Paramatman by "me", non existent
entity, stops. Then all notions, beliefs which are images in the mind of God
being separate from "me" drop away in this Realization!
In that Realization, mind becomes quiet, peaceful on its own in which Glimpse of
Atman is natural. So, I don't entertain any ideas about separate God right at
the outset, not wait for Realization to happen!
This is what I understand by Paramatman is already attained! Vasudeva Sarvam
from the beginning!

Unfortunately mind comes back and claims that Glimpse(of God) to be his own
experience, not realizing that it was absent when Glimpse was Present. Kabirji
puts this as "Either Hari or "me", both cannot be present on the path of
LOVE"(Prem gali ati sankari, tame na samay do................).
The Grace by the way, takes the guise of Swamiji or like him or scripture or
devotion or Satsang with spiritual friends like thhis forum.
So why don't we realize now? Realization is like glimpses, like lightening,
flashes here and flashes there, in time frame from the point of mind, but not
due to time really! When someone realizes SELF, it has nothing to do with
elapsed time, because suppose if the same one didn't realize then also time
would have elapsed, right? So time is not the independent variable in the
equation at all, only understanding brings it! Understanding means Devotion or
Self-less Karmas or any combinations, but finally only Grace will do it! You can
only go to the Gateless Gate and wait, and the doors open when God wants it!
This is the reason Saints say that you do sadhana, and in time You will realize.
Time is just a thought which references a point in the past and thought arise in
us such as "oh, it took 5 years to realize or change" etc etc. No one can
experience the time in chronological way(it is running river), we experience
only interveals of time as thoughts only. Thought is psychological time,
thoughts creates time(and space too)! see for yourself.
Few more clarifications later!
Namaskar.........Pratap Bhatt


I am devotee of God and have never had doubts of his existence. I attain God
this way. I put in different places little post it notes, Please do not let me
forget You even for a moment, I say He Naath, He Mere Naath, I think on Bagwaan,
Paramatma and Vasudev Sarvam all times. I use prayer of Oh Father let me never
forget you even for a moment, oh Compassionate One, let Your sweet memory be
always with me.Oh kind hearted my Father, my Master there is no one else, let me
not forget you even in my dreams,while walking, eating, sleeping let me only
think of You.In whatever I do let me always think of You.Your sweet, sweet
memories ever remain.Please grace me with this remembrance.. whatever work that
is being done yet in my heart, in my mind there is only God. Please I lie at
your lotus feet entreating let not even a moment pass without me remembering
you, let me think of you every second, HE NAATH HE MERE NAATH Let me never
forget, let me remember all times...



Hari Om

Pawanji. Why you should consider some thing to be difficult to conquer? What is
the difficulty?

What is yours? A thing/body over which you have no independent control , can
that be yours? By what yardstick you consider some thing/body to be yours? A
thing/body which was not yours in the past, not going to be yours in the future,
at present also it is constantly drifting away from you, how that thing can be
yours? Where is the difficulty in understanding this simple fact?

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
Dear sadaks,
I first beg pardon from Sri Pratabji. Sri Pratabji, Sri Vyasji, Sri Mikeji, and
all those NAMES mentioned by Sri Vyasji are one of Paramathuma` s and not
differant. Only names divides to produce sounds. Sri Pratabji, it is not me who
implied on you. Where is you or me? We are one and the same as said by you.
Sri Pratabji you have answered in your posting. That is, ""We make such
statements as "until you realize Self or Paramatman, you are in Maya, bondage!
But I say until you choose to remain bind in Maya, you may not realize God."" I
knew you will precisely answer and only in that sense I requested you.
One more clarification from sadaks on the above line,""until you choose to
remain bind in Maya, you may not realize God."" Does Maya bind us or we are
binded by Maya. That is, "is Maya making us to be bonded or are we getting
ourselves into Maya" Some sadak has written about Naradhji getting monkey face
because he said he won Maya. Maya has played with Paramathuma when HE decended
to earth as Badrinarayana, and with Bagavan Shiva and Maya lost & went back in
""Swamiji means what he said "Paramatman is already attained", is a statement of
fact we need to discover for ourselves!"" promtly said by SriPratabji
Bagavan said in Geetha that line, ""Aneka Samshidayah-------". That man does
attain me in one of the several births."" which means that man already
attained, but when is the question (Time factor).
Dear Sadaks, kindly enlighten me on the line starting with ""Name Baktha-----""
said in Geetha. Please be precise in answer with a story example if possible.
Namaste to Sri Pratabji and all other sadaks.
Jai Sri Krishna

Dear sadak, (pawan singhal )
Normally when one thought in mind disappears another comes. Mind nature to be in
constant search. Search of worldly matters and things/ Or Search of divinity.
Sometime as we see people having both partly this and partly that. Partly on
worldly matters remains only when you give room to it. Slowly reduce your
activity on worldly matters and social obligations and shift to Sat Sangh,
Solitude, contemplation, listening lectures, visiting temples Etc. The mind will
automatically diverse from world to divinity to great extent. Once retired
renounce and spend time fully in divinity. The mind longing automatically takes
place. Mind transformation happens by God` s will.
Jai Sri Krishna
Dear Sadaks,
Sri Pratab Bhatt says, " "To our dear Sathyanarayanaji with great respect!
In my understanding Bhakta can ask God "why He is delaying salvation" or he may
not even need to ask. God would know all true Bhaktas' heartfelt desires for
merging in Him."" But Swamiji said
Goswamiji has said `Lord, give me your devotion and free me of desires, anger
and faults'. Only `Give me your devotion as that alone will suffice.' 3rd March,
2009, Tuesday Falgun Shukla Panchami, Vikram Samvat 2065, Mangalvar

Sri Pratab I know he will have answer for Sadhaks
Jai Sri Krishna
Dear Sadaks,

Sri Pratabji thus said so is absolutely correct, Thus salvation is what we
already are. If you remember Swamiji says Paramatma is already attained, how can
you attain that which is attained? Atman or God or Self or Consciousness is what
we are, not we will become. It is a matter of remembering or realizing, not

Now the question comes from ordinary men. -
1) I am fraud, doing all underhand dealings, I cheat people and bank or even
nation, I know how bad I am. Sir, you are telling me that I already attained
Paramathuma .
2) Politician said, I know what I am doing and Sir you call me I attained
Paramathuma. Don’t be kidding.
3) Student said, I have to achieve so much in life Sir you say I attained
4) Householder said, I have to get my children married and see that they get
settled, don’t be joking I attained Paramathuma.

What Swamiji said was also correct. Then where came the difference?

Human alone is blessed with such a body and intellect that can discriminate good
and bad, body and the soul, jeeva and paramathuma. Now a boy is told that he is
fit to become doctor. He studies hard and gets Degree as a doctor. He did not
know he can become doctor until told. He then studied well and became doctor
only on listening to advisor (Guru). So Swamiji shares the teachings of the Gita
and scriptures saying human has in built capacity and ability to attain God.
Which means that one need not fear that he cannot attain GOD, as he has all
provisions to attain God. But human does not know this power within is there.
Now take animals they don't have that power to attain God, except in exceptional
cases. Animals have to raise to human level to attain God. Referance; Kapila
Geetha told by Bagavan to Deva Hoothi. Even devatas, Indra etc are to take human
birth and get salvation says Vedas. This valuable life gift (Godliness) is
attained, but unaware of the birth of a human birth gift obtained by passing
through various birth from tree to animals. Misuse this birth and go back to a
worm in a dust bin says Vivekachudamani. Narayana Batadri a famous sant of
Guruvayuralso wrote that the human body is invaluable gift, if misused one takes
birth as animals. Referance: Srimath Narayiniyam. Bagavan in Geetha also said,
"Aneka Jalma Samshidayaha-----" Gyan is that you now accept that you are in a
attained position of Paramathuma. Vig (Scientifically- Science of Creation) is
applied to Gyan and one becomes Vig Gyani where by he can never ever commit
mistake after becoming so. A Gyani has committed mistake but Vig Gyani does not.
Best Example: Adi Sankara was Gyani but his Gyan was incomplete, until Bagavan
Shiva came in disguise as Chandala with 4 dogs in street of Kasi and gave Vig
Gyan. Referance : Manisha Panchakam.

Sri Pratabji wrote that "Arjuna says Nashtomoha smritirlabdhwa. .....Karishye
tavachanam.. ..
"I remember my true Self now Lord, I will do what you say".

So every human needs Sri Krishna. the Guru to say these, then he will say, I
remember my true self until then he is in maya.

Sadaks, body is a vital tool to attain Paramathuma. Bhramaji was jealous in
heaven when he saw Sri Krishna eating along with his friends in Vridavan, one
feeding each other. He thought what a gift to be a child in Vrindavan along with
Sri Krishna. My post is useless. Devas and devathas where still more jealous and
it would have best to be a calf or cow there rather than in this Bog lok wasting

Sadaks we are blessed to be in human form on earth to the extent to serve Sri
Krishna in Pooja, in making Mala, in giving HIM fruits, in prostrating at his
feet, in singing HIS songs, in seeing HIM blissfully. This NO ONE else in 13
Loks can do. Referance : Sants of Panderpur, Shenayi, Chota Mela, Sakubai etc.
and also written in Gyanapaana of the great sant who flew to Vaikunt by Puspaka
Viman in 1650 at Malapuram in public view Sant Sri Poothanam.

Jai Sri Krishna

False asssumption becoming happy or unhappy from those things that
come & go & having relationship with nature (Prakarti) Said Sri pawan singhal.
How many times happiness came and gone?. How many times unhappiness came and
gone? It will come and go, so be aware of this truth.
Jai Sri Krishna

Shree Hari
I accept Gita 7(19) that God is everywhere and in everything but I
can not realise God due to lack of understanding of Gita 18(48) &
false asssumption becoming happy or unhappy from those things that
come & go & having relationship with nature (Prakarti).
I am trying to make relationship with self but in vain. Other way is
only to meet the devotee of God in physical form as guided in Gita 4
(34). I realise swamiji as Giani -Gita 4(34) & take benefit till
association with Him. Now I am trying those benefit through gita-
talk group that is insant satsang. I have already requested to
sadhakas of this group but in vain.
I believe in association of great soul in physical form to get
spiritual guidance as I feel with Swamiji at Rishikesh & Kolkatta.
Please assist me to meet divine sadhaka & other realised great
soul/Giani/devotee of God

pawan singhal
Ram Ram

Shri Hari
Longing is by the Self is answer of my question as explained by
Meera Das. I request to Sh. Meera Das & all sadhaks please explain
How it will happen? I can only pray to God. I am helpless.
Ram Ram
pawan singhal


Shree Hari
Ram Ram

Here are simple, clear and very easy words spoken in Hindi by
Swamiji -

"Sabse pehle sweekar kar lo ki main Bhagwaan ka hoon. Ek baar saral
hriday se dridhta poorvak sweekar kar lo ki main Bhagwaan ka hi
hoon. Jab aap bhagwaan ke ho to aapko unki smriti ke liye kuch karna
hi nahin padega. Aapki har kriya unki pooja hogi."

Meager attempt at translating these simple words -

"First of all, accept that I am Bhagwaan's (I belong to God). Just
once, with a simple, straight forward heart, accept with a firm
conviction, that I am only Bhagwaan's (I belong to only God). When
you become Bhagwaan's then you will have to do absolutely nothing
for His rememberance. All your activities will become His worship."

Now the Panchamrit (Five Golden Principles) just happens on it's
own -
1) I am only God's
2) I reside in His kingdom only
3) I do His work (good and auspicious) only
4) I receive only His prasad (blessing/offering)
5) With the prasad received from Him, I serve only His family.

Now what will cause you to forgot Bhagwaan (God)? When you become
someone's do you have to remember you belong to them? Do you have
to recite at night I belong to Him, I belong to Him, I belong to
Him? Do you have to study to remind yourself, since I belong to my
Beloved, I must cook and do other work for Him? Do you have to
remind yourself that since I belong to Him, I must take care of His
children? and so on?

Become Bhagwaan's (God's) ONLY ONCE !!!! .... says Swamiji... Magic
follows... undoubtedly.

Meera Das
Ram Ram


In India we are lucky to have amongst us God realised souls who are
showing others the path to salvation. These gurus by shunning
worldly comforts and possessions are showing us the way. Once we
realise that every thing that we see is maya or illusion and that
the only truth is the Soul or Atma within each of us whose only goal
is to unite with the Parmatma, we can attain salvation. What we are
today is the result of our past karmas but we can control what we
will become through through the result of our present karmas. So if
we follow the right path of sewa or helping others, satsang or
seeking the company of good people, sadhna or spiritual practices
and dhyan or meditation to connect with our Soul then we will be on
the right path.
Hari Shanker Deo

Thank You Narinder Bhandariji. I bow to YOU and The Krishna
rejoicing your Rejoice.


Naga Narayana

Dear Sadaks,
One says Salvation/Mukthi is always there. Another point said that
you that Sat Chit and Anandham. Then why one has to suffer? Because

1) One knows not to tell lies, but says- Mind level.
2) One knows drinking alcohol is wrong, but drinks -Body level.
3) One knows that he has to Sadhana, but does not do, intellect

These 3 are called Trikarna Sudhi (Clealiness of body mind and
intellect) How to achieve it? By guidance - God/Guru. Salvation
Mukthi is there, but one is not living in it as the qualities are
not there. A person with eye sight is unable to read. But then he
needs spectacles. So the body, mind and intellect is not in form, it
is spoilt. He needs Gyan (Spectacle) to see within (Athuman) his
He gets from Guru or Govind or Sat Sangh. Until then he does not
realize that he is easily reachable to God/Salvation/Mukthi. That is
why without Guru or Govind or Sat Sangh he undergoes birth after
birth. The man who obtained Gyan knows preyty well that his Swaroop
is itself divine and because of curtain of Maya he lost valuable
life time.
What is wrong in learning from the saint's teachings? In fact their
teaching are there for one to follow. Otherwise those histories
could not have been written. In fact it is easy to follow a saint
path to reach God faster. Saints showed easy methods that could make
one realize.
There were so many disciples who followed the instructions of their
Guru and obtained Mukthi. Example: Sant Ekanath. In Kaliyug it is
difficult for man to read scriptures/Sanskrit Etc and then know the
path. In Srimath Bagavath says in Kaliyug Namasankeerthan is enough
to get liberated. Each yuga Dharma is there in Scripts. If someone
tells me easy and quick and fast way to reach Badrinath, what is
wrong in following his advise. So are Bakthas who guides us. Just by
presenting a flower Mala daily with faith and love to God a saint
(Vishnu Chithar) says it will pave path to Vaikunt. It seems easy
but if one tries that somewhere or other he fails in timely pooja or
loose a day without, or gets stuck to some business or occupied in a
family function Etc. So sincerity, faith, love towards God setting
aside even a great need of family produces realization. Sadaks, many
of us go temple say certain day Friday/Saterday. How punctual are we?

Hiranyakasipu and Prahald had argument where is GOD. Prahald said HE
is everywhere. His father asked is HE in this pillar. Prahalad
says, "Drusyate" (Yes I see God). His father says "Nah Durshyate" (I
can not see HIM). Why? One has Gyan the other has Agyan. Though
Paramathuma there , one could see and other could not see. Most of
us are still in Agyan. Here Guru was Prahalad who showed GOd and
Hiranyakasipu obtained Mukthi.

Jai Sri Krishna

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

Dear Pawanji, Swamiji has said that such experience of the presence
of God, the rememberance of God, your Beloved One by true
sentiments, is only possible by one's own Self. Not by mind/
intellect and not by trying to remember. It is only when this
longing is by the Self, that it happens on it's own simply,
naturally, and involuntarily (Swabhavik). Swamiji says this is so
innate that it happens even in one's sleep. Rather it happens
naturally all the time. Intense attachment and longing for God -
round the clock. It is not about "doing" but simply "being". It
simply and naturally "IS". Absolutely nothing has to be done to
remember our Beloved One.

Just like when our Beloved is going to arrive by train, and we have
not seen him for a long time and we are waiting at the railway
station for Him, and we feel the anxiety, the longing - When will my
Beloved come? When will I see Him? How much longer will it be before
our eyes meet? This anticipation, this longing is so intense that
one simply cannot wait even a moment. It is consuming ! Just that
one thought.. when will I see my Beloved!

Just like when we are intensely thirsty and are consumed with the
thought of a sip of water. Do you have such enthusiasm? Such drive?
Such Zeal? Such Intensity? Such Sentiments to meet Your Beloved One,
God? - asks Swamiji

Meera Das
Ram Ram


Krishna and His song

The Heart,

In longing pain

Cries out

Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna!

The Soul rejoices.

The Mind

In love's ecstasy

Bows at the feet of the Beloved

The Soul rejoices.

And Krishna smiles,

The flute rising to his lips.

Ah! The symphony of the soundless sound,


The seven disappear into the Light of lights


Time disappears into Timelessness


The Heart,

In longing's pain

Keeps Crying out

Krishna, Krishna, Krishna, Krishna!


Thence comes the Lords song of songs

The Bhagavad geetha, ah !

To assuage the hearts pain

And, the Minds thirst for Knowledge, and Light


narinder bhandari


Hari Om

Pawanji ! You have received sterling in sights in response to your
Qs, the last one from Mira Dassji. Truth and only truth is there in
her last message to you. If you just "accept" with a simple heart
what she has so eloquently recommended to you, your search gets over
effortlessly, then and there !! Where can Paramatma hide when you
start with goal of BG 7:19? Can ice hidden behind ice ever remain

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
Dear Sadhak,
Why think to achieve salvation at the "end" ? It cannot be a future
goal. It is HERE and NOW as stated by sadhak Narinderji.
Only effort needed is to be present Here and Now with a deep longing
to reach HIM. Now is the eternity zone. All spiritual practices like
breath control, name chanting, mala japa etc leads sadhak to remain
in present moment.
The whole world is nothing but an illusion, a web of our thinking
mind. When a sadhak practices living in here and now, he is out of
the grip of his thinking mind and all doing becomes happenings.
"Sarva Dharma Paritjya, mamekam sharanam vrij"Gitaji. when sadhak
surrender to Krishna, he accept every moment As IT IS and remains
submerged in the ocean of Love, Bliss and Peace.
with Love,
a sadhika
Sadhna Karigar

Shri Hari
I am asking question due to my nature-Gita 5(14) & Gita 2(7) but
before Gita 18(73) & because I know the truth-everything belongs to
Bhagwan, the essence, I say this but I do not believe the truth, the
essence as i say in prayer written by Swami Shri Ramsukhdasji
Meera Das & Pratap Bhatt has explained after Gita 18(73)
Ram Ram

Shree Hari
Ram Ram

Swamiji incessantly, relentlessly, persistently spoke
about "Vasudeva Sarvam"
(All is God) in the final years in His mortal body. He repeated this
many times
questions or

Swamiji said -
Whatever is perceived with mind, speech, sight and other senses is
only God.
Accept this immediately. The active, inactive, conscious, matter,
[born of egg,
sweat and sprouting from earth] - all are God and nothing else. Good
or bad,
wicked or virtuous, all are God. There is nothing else besides God.
He who
wishes to attain God should accept this fact. As Shri Jaydayalji
Goyandka used
to say that "Whatever is seen is God's divine form and whatever is
and activities undertaken is His divine play/pastime (lila).

If you are very serious about your question, if you believe in Gita
4:11 (that
however a devotee worships Me, so do I approach them) and have an
ardent and
intense longing to find the answer to this question, it does not
matter if it is
at the end of life or not, SIMPLY FROM NOW ONWARDS - EVERYTHING YOU
LILA (Divine Play/Pastime).

Now if a devotee worship Bhagwaan in this manner, where can
Bhagwaanji HIDE?
Tell me one place he will not be? Tell me how at the end of this
life, end of
this human body, He will not be there as Yamdoot (God of Death)?
Tell me where
you will need to go searching for this rare Devotee of God by true &
sentiments? If your sentiments are true and heartfelt, can you not
accept what
Gita says and what Swamiji says that Bhagwaan (Vasudeva) is
everywhere, in
everything, in all that you see, think, feel, do, experience and
more, because
there is only "Vasudeva" and this is clearly stated in the Gita 7:19
and through
out the Gita in Chapter 11 and more!

Do you have any further questions or doubts? Please bring them out!

Meera Das
Ram Ram
Dear Sri Pawan kumar

I remember the words of a man who is an ardent devotee of Sri
Ramana. He used to say 'IF YOU THINK OF HIM IT IS HIS GRACE.. EVEN

Please contemplate on that

vrsarma podury

Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
To our dear Sathyanarayanaji with great respect!
In my understanding Bhakta can ask God "why He is delaying
salvation" or he may not even need to ask. God would know all true
Bhaktas' heartfelt desires for merging in Him.
What I mean is the when you are in love with God, unconditionally,
you wouldn't want to make loving Him as a means to the end
(salvation). Such love or remembering God constantly is in itself
the means and end, without duality even though on-lookers may feel
Bhagwaan and Bhakta as separate.
I consider salvation as Moksha or liberation from a false sense
of "me", non existent ego and establishment in Atman our true Self.
Thus salvation is what we already are. If you remember Swamiji says
Paramatma is already attained, how can you attain that whihc is
attained? Atman or God or Self or Consciousness is what we are, not
we will become. It is a matter of remembering or realizing, not
In attaining anything there is duality of someone who attains and
something to be attained, not the case here in this Bhakti (loving
Arjuna says Nashtomoha smritirlabdhwa......Karishye tavachanam....
"I remember my true Self now Lord, will do what you say".
One lives free of "me" as Sat-Chit-Ananda only.
In salavation no individual entity survives, it is living
impersonally, as Intelligence, Love, Peace, Steadfastness! Karmas
are done when needed without doer!
Namaskar...........Pratap Bhatt

Dear Sadhak,
I am remember the boon of Kunti in Mahabharat.She requested Lord
Krishna to keep them in poverty so that she can remember almighty
God.Still however we should keep that spirit and in spite of all
troubles and our condition we should never avoid offering prayers at
least or twice.We should learn as to hoe to prayer.Please refer to
my book on 'Prayers of all Religions of the world. This is what I
Truly yours

Shankerprasad S Bhatt


Sree Pratabji, Kindly bear with me for my mistake. Your goodness
said-- say if one(Bhakta) constantly remembers God, does he have
time to ask anything of Bhagwaan? Is he/she not living in
Salvation?. Baktha is in constant thought of GOD that is why he has
full time to ask
GOD why that HE is delaying salvation. Worldly man partly with God
has time to ask GOD for his desires to be fullfilled one after the
other until death. Such man Geetha has said Kamiyartha Baktha, whom
GOD gives him long rope fulfilling his desires one after other, GOD
hoping he will become Jignasu. That hope of GOD is benovolence. Once
again pardon me if I am wrong and enlighten me.

Salvation is that I thought is attained stage, not living in
salvation. Salvation is to be attained and not living in it. Means
trying for salvation. Once salvation is attained there is no
desires. You are very right Sir.

God is available only when we become His and remember His Glories
and His name many times continuously, then and then we will feel His
presence within your hearts. He will be seen but his presence will
be felt. This is how Mirabai, Narsinh Mehta and Chaitainya Maha
Prabhu realized God.
This is what I feel everyday while offering prayers

Truly yours
S S Bhatt



Dear Sadak,
You are searching GOD outside you . Outside you HE exists, but in
Veerat Roop. Search withIN you with love on Sri Krishna Roop, youR
problem ends.
Thanks.Believe and love God because Gita 5(29) verdict as explained
by Raja Gurdasani & Kamlesh Kumar
Pawan Singhal
Ram Ram
Dear Sadhaks ,
The question , in some way, is related to a desire to walk the Path
of a true sadhka . Some thoughts that blossomed from within on two
different points of time , are given below. Both are related .

In fewest words, The Path of a sadhak , could perhaps, be stated as
follows :

1.We are what we are , at this point of Time. It could never have
been ( and , can never be )otherwise .

2.When the Self is Known, all is Known. It is not that all answers
are available ( The field of Knowledge is so vast); it
is ...that..... all Questions drop....... whatever needs to be known
at a particular point of Time ( always Herenow) is made available to
The Knower of the Self by Existence .

3. Living now is no more ' living in the Time'( Past and Future). It
is always in your own ' presence' ( awareness) in the Here now.
Spontaneous living sans Fear , Pain, and delusion.

4.The sense of Doership disappears .

5.Intense, choiceless Love blossoms in the Heart. The Mind bows to
the Heart, to that Love.True love is understood . Judgement stops.
Discernment is spontaneous . Argument seems Meaningless. Discussion
is only out of Love; for the seeking Heart.

6.Words become Fewer, and they flower from your Silence (
Peacefulness ! ) And, They are purposeful. They have Power ( power---
--not as the world understands, but the power of God and Love......
to transform the seeker ).

7. The Whole Process ( walking the Path ) is for Oneself. If, we
were already Enlightened .............. we shall pass the Test ( we
shall Know) by the joy of conduct ...... ( The Conduct is the
Test ).Generally, it is , and will be, in accordance with the basic
principles shown ( given ) by the Knowers of Truth. We shall remain
Blissful, and Peaceful .

8. The True Seeker yearns for the Truth, his/ her own Being , with
the intensity of HERENOW. THe Desire is to end all words . The
shortest Way.
No prolonging. Minimum Discussion. No argument. No imposition of
ones own Concepts. Acceptance of everyone's Being ( SEE 1 Above ),
respecting others' Being, respecting his/ her own being .

9. and finally.......( although, one could go on....... ) The way to
Light is not through ' acquisition of new knowledge, but your
willingness to drop your Knowledge ( concepts/ conditionings).
Anything that is born, has to die. True Love, True knowledge, Truth
of Being, is Unborn, Unchanging and , therefore, Undying. It is
already present in YOU, You are already That .

ah ! what more to say and how ? ( already too many words !! )

For Spiritual Seekers longing for the divine mystical union with
that great Void , we call Existence, Nature, or God :

1. The longing for God is Existence Gift to the Seekers on the
sacred Path of love and Light.

2. This longing one day, culminates in Grace, and the personal
experience ( knowing) of the Un-knowable

3. The paradox of Action ( effort) and Grace gets resolved in that

4. That resolution of the paradox is the state of being, where
˜doing is˜ doing nevermore where all becomes a happenning Grace
and yet, there is no running away from doing what needs being done.
there is NO running away, because you are not into doing any more
running away cannot happen. all happens as it happens. Existences
Play , with narinder-ness in total acceptance of it a part of
Existential Play and Doing

5.TILL THAT HAPPENS. Doing, much Doing is the Way.. and it is the
Knowers of Truth that guide us into attitudes and conduct to strive
for Bhagvada geetha gives to the seeker, the threefold practise of ˜
Karma-yoga action , surrendering the fruit to the Lord),Bhakti (
devotion) and Gyana ( Knowledge of the True ) . All the scriptures
speak nothing else they speak and shriek, in love of the seeking
heart,what is the Way , of the Karma and Dharma

6.The final test of ˜having arrived is your conduct and who is to
judge the conduct ? you, yourself , of course ! it is the movement
of the self , for the self; and it is the self , which chooses to
die to the self , to realise the Self.

the last thought that comes to the mind is . that the self, when it
arrives, it knows that it has not yet arrived .. he, who Knows,
knows now , that he does not know.

Narinder bhandari


Dear Sadhakas, Namaste!
This is just to answer Sathyanarayanji's observations on my previous
I say if one(Bhakta) constantly remembers God, does he have time to
ask anything of Bhagwaan? Is he/she not living in Salvation?

I say this to emphasize "remembering God and not expecting
anything", just unconditional love for God goes a long way.
No expectations, no desires(even for salvation) lead to anhilation
of "me". Without "me", all six enemies (anger, jealousy, etc) have
no footing. "me" is ignorance who thrives on shadripus(6 enemies)!
Such Bhaktas don't say they are in salvation but we can ceratinly
say they are, to pay our respect!
Even if Bhaktas like Kabirji and Prahladji asked something from God,
it still is alright to just keep rememebring God without expecting,
isn't it? Gita teaches us too. Each of Bhaktas may have different
approaches to teach us to be true Bhaktas. We have to be inspired by
such Bhaktas, not necessarily copy them. They are all unique in
their own way is the proof of different expressions of the same
Namaskar............Pratap Bhatt


Q: How can I Remember God and by True Sentiments for Attaining

Salvation or Mukti or Moksha is ever-present and hence need not be
attained, nor can it be attained by any effort! There are no
sentiments - rather no emotions of any sort - there either.
Remembering The God is another myth.

Then it remains a puzzle, why such a natural reality is not felt?!
Why can't we even remember That when it is claimed to be ever-
present?! What is the problem??!! The reason is the imbibed cataract
in terms of our wrong notions (ignorance) and corrupt attitude
(inertia). Just like the vison becomes clear on the removal of its
hinderance, our experience becomes transparent when the ignorance
and inertia are removed. Sadhana is the process of removal of the
ignorance and inertia that cloud our existence, perception and
experience limiting us to imagine everything within these domains.
Our dependence on these mechanisms of existence makes us insist for
their approval for everything - even The God. The dependence is so
strong and opaque that we can't even dream of any alternative.
Hence the insistence, if there is any reality, it should be revealed

Unfortunately, finite cannot withold the infinite! The Upanishads
make it very clear:

Naayamaatmaa pravachanena labhyah na medhayaa na bahunaa shrutena |

The Absolute cannot be approached by any relative media such as
listening, thinking, discussion, talking, etc. irrespective of the
self-proclaimed excellence in the same. All perceived objects as
well as ideas remain finite within the limited perception itself.
Therefore, The Truth remains oblivious to the cognition as far as
there is insistence for seeing everything through the lens of
cognition only. As natural to a lense, it can capture only what it
sees and can transmit only what it can. In fact, what is transmitted
may not even resemble the original often thanks to its spatial
boundaries, color filtering and refractional distortions. The image
sensed within and the object attempted to be sensed remain alien to
each other thanks to the opaqueness in the very cognitive system.
Therefore, any attempt to cognize the trans-perceptional reality is
futile in the first place.

But, the ever-present reality should be theoretically the easiest to
be attained … in fact it is already there even without any effort of
seeking! Then what is the difficulty? The difficulty is the
insistent blindness through the so-called vision of ours. The
insistence to reach everything through our mind-body cluster ONLY.
The ever-attained is ever-ready for a seeker if he/she ever could
just escape the clutches of self-woven fish-net of desires and fears
cocooned within opaque shell of ignorance and inertia. If one could
just drop the dependence on these, THAT is naturally THERE for every

Yamevaisha vrinute tena labhyah tasyaisha aatmaa vivrunute tanum
swaam ||

Do not try to establish anything … just be as you are … just
perceive everything as is … then you are automatically THAT which is
The You before your birth, at your birth, through your life, at your
death, and after your death. If you let yourself be … THAT reveals
itself within and around.

Ramana Maharshi puts his brilliant depth of appreciation beautifully:

Ulladalad ull unarv ullado?
Ulla porul ullal ara ullatte ulladaal.
Ullam enum ulla porul ullal evan?
Ullatte ullabadi ullade ullal unar ||

I beg Maharshi's pardon as I am tempted to give its Kannada
equivalent in my limited understanding, in case any could benefit

Iralaarada ola-iruvu iruvudentu?
Ola-arivu olage nintu hora baaradu.
Horabaarada ola-iruvanu porevudentu?
Ola-iruvanu aritu iruva arive nija.

Grossly, it means,

How can there be a sense of existence without something being
The being within remains "as is" NOT seeking anything.
How to attain the one within that seeks nothing? and, who can ever
attain That?
Understand that you can attain the one within by just being within
seeking nothing.

Swami Ramsukhdasji lays out a clear strategy to develop the strength
within to turn our focus from our conceived world to The Reality in
his revelation on "Bhagavattattva" (Sadhan Sudha Sindhu):

1. Purify the Bahih Karana (extrinsic awareness) to develop Antah
Karana (intrinsic awareness).
2. Filter the Antah Karana to extract Viveka Drishti (innate
3. Clarify the Viveka Drishti to remain in The Tattva … The Absolute
(That is often called Tattva Drishti or Salvation etc.)

I have never seen such out-spoken and clear-cut strategy in this
regard elsewhere so far. I recommend everyone to study The Nectar he
generously pours out for everyone of us with care. FYI, it is being
currently circulated.


Naga Narayana
Hari Om

Pawanji ! You "become" of Paramatma ! Just As: Without any practice
a wife "becomes" of her husband. Accept firmly once with a simple
heart: I am of the God, only God is mine.

Once you do that Bhajan has started unceasingly in you. The "karta"
(doer/thinker/ego) has become of God, now all the karmas have become
Godly- naturally. The real Bhajan/remembering/thinking about God is
that which "happens" effortlessly and which is not "done" .

Look at the status today. We "have to" think/remember about God,
while thinking/remembering about the world "happens automatically".

Why? Because at "subtle ego level" we continue to be of world. Hence
thoughts about the world are automatic. While remaining of the world
only , we want to remember/think about God- hence we experience
problems in concentrating.

CHANGE YOUR EGO from "I am of world" to "I am of God" ! Thereupon
bhajan will be automatic and remembering about the world will "have
to be done"!

As simple as that !

Jai Shree Krishna

Vyas N B
Thanks to all. I want to know sixteen powers which given by God so
that we can do many good things in life and we will be happy as
posting by Shri Shankerprasad S. Bhatt.
I agree God is doing most vital actions of our life without
interruption & without any noise also without showing any ehsan.
I have to renounce desire-Gita 2(47), I concluded from the posting
of all sadhak
Ram Ram

pawan singhal
Shree Hari
Ram Ram
Pawanji, kindly post "sixteen powers by God" as separate question.
From Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram


Priy sadhak
In my view & experience I suggest please realise god work in every
little bit of action happening in & around U.
Like heart beat. Think who is doing it?
Like breathing.
Like digesting whatever u eat & nourishment of ur body.
Can U do all this?
Then it is proved that god is doing most vital actions of our life
without interruption and without any noise. also without showing any
Doesnt it make u believe & love god?
If yes love more
if no ask urself why why u are so ehsan faramosh.
Sorry if I hurt U.
I didnt mean it.
Raja Gurdasani

Dear Sadaks,
Look at it this way when Bhakta constantly remembers and thinks of
God, does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not live
already in Salvation? THUS said Sri Pratab.
Bakthas at various levels asked Bagavan to help in distress and
asked HIM to liberate him from this world. There are numerable songs
were Bakthas were asking with GOD, to liberate one from the 6
enemies (^ bad Gunas -Kama, Krodh etc). Even Prahalad who was with
Sri Vishnu all the time, sang so. Kabir did so. Though they were
highly elevated souls why they sang so? Because they never left an
atom of thought any part of their life that they are already in
salvation. This thought they knew is Ego in disguise which is not
But if one understood he is already in salvation, he becomes dumb.
Behaves like Pagal Baba, never cares to even dress, never cares for
food. Those great men we recognised them as "Chitta Braman", (metaly
handicap). We are accustomed in seeing world, so to our eyes they
will be Pagal. But after their disappearence we build temples.




Dear Pawan Kumar ji,
I am inspired by God to write to you on the subject.
Love is God.
God is Love.
Love all
Serve all.
See God in every creation of God. God in you is the God in everyone.
Serve every creation of God is the purpose of every human who is
given this blessed Birth.
Think Good
See Good
Hear Good
Do Good.

Every moment / breath of life in you is the blessing of God , so
thank God for giving you an opportunity to serve HIM by serving HIS

By doing this you will realize the and attain Salvation. Choice is
with you but to do this you always need the blessings of that
Supreme. and HE who will inspire you and guide you the path of
salvation. Do your Good Karma and leave the fruit of that unto HIM
to decide.

It is like you wish to win a lottery but never bought the ticket.

One need to have a strong determination and go step by step and
drop by drop you can fill the ocean.

I apologize, if I hurt your feelings in any way
With Warmest Regards and Ever Flowing Eternal Love

Kamlesh Kumar

Dear Sadhakas, namaste!
Q: How can I get salvation at least at the end?
Answer( to me at least): By not expecting salvation! When "I" who
expect salvation or whatever, and salvation itself are seen to be
one and the same, salvation has happened.
In otherwords, I and desired object are understood to be the same,
duality of subject object ceases and all struggles to desire
anything vanishes, leaving God only, experienced as Peace, Love,
Beauty, Harmony, Joy!
Look at it this way when Bhakta constantly remembers and thinks of
God, does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not live
already in Salvation?
It is only by constantly desiring one pushes away the object of
when expectations or desires including that of Moksha end, "I" also
end at the same time, not later!
See the truth of this statement, and start living, stop expecting!
Namaskar..........Pratap Bhatt


Dear Sadak,
pawan kumar singha. Very simple. If your basic duties are over and
if you want to quit worldly life, then it is surely possible.
Bagavan has very clearly said in Geetha, "Aninya Chitayayome", means
constant thought on ME, that soul I (Bagavan) takes over. Your
responsibility in search of HIM ceases, but on the other hand HIS
responsibility takes over.
This also Bagavan has said in Geetha, that by HIS sankalp HE will
liberate HIS baktha in same birth.
Totally dedicate everything to Bagavan by Pooja, Bhajan, making
garlands for Bhagavan, growing fruits for Bhagwaan, listening
scriptures/puranas Etc, learning vedic way of life in food, sleep
and practice, washing cloths for Bhagavan, cleaning temple, lighting
lamps, looking at HIM with love and affection, saying Japa walking
around HIM (Idol), just pronouncing Govinda, Madhava, Sri Krishanaya
Vasudevaya Mukundhaya Namo Namo as one walks around garden. In all
moments to dedicate everything to Bagavan, B.Sathyanarayan

Dear Sadhak,

Every one should have knowledge of how he or she got this form of
human being after many turns of birth and death in 8.4 million
different forms of births. If we know we will always remember Him
because we are obligated to Him

Secondly if we know that after giving human birth God gave us some
sixteen divine powers so that we can do many good things in life and
we will be happy.
Shankerprasad S Bhatt

We can do sewa, satsang, sadhna and meditation which spiritual
practices will definitely lead us in the right direction.
Hari Shanker Deo

- Love is God. God is Love. Love all. Serve all.
See God in All. God in you is the God in All.
Serve All.
Think Good. See Good. Hear Good. Do Good. Leave the Fruit to Him.
Every breath is blessing of God, so thank God for his blessing to
serve His creation! Thus, realize and attain Salvation. Choice is
yours, but by His blessings, inspiration, guidance you will attain.
- "Aninya Chitayayome", means constant thought on ME, that soul I
(Bagavan) takes over. By HIS sankalp HE will liberate HIS baktha in
same birth. In all moments to dedicate everything to Bhagavan.
- Can get salvation, by not expecting salvation'
- by constantly desiring one pushes away the object of desire!
- all struggles to desire anything vanishes, leaving God only,
experienced as Peace, Love, Beauty, Harmony, Joy!
- Bhakta constantly remembers God, loosing himself, thus living in
Salvation. Does he have a time to ask for anything? Does he not live
already in Salvation?
- god is doing most vital actions of our life without interruption
and without any noise. also without showing any ehsan.
- after human birth in 8.4 million different life forms... we are
eternally obligated to Bhagwaan
- Our experience becomes transparent when the ignorance
and inertia are removed.
- Salvation or Mukti or Moksha is ever-present and hence need not be
attained, nor can it be attained by any effort! finite cannot
withold the infinite! Any attempt to cognize the trans-perceptional
reality is futile in the first place. what is the difficulty in
realizing that which is ever-present? The difficulty is the
insistent blindness through the so-called vision of ours. The
insistence to reach everything through our mind-body cluster ONLY.
Do not try to establish anything … just be as you are … just
perceive everything as is … then you are automatically THAT.
Remain "as is" NOT seeking anything. Simply be!
Approach: 1) Purify the extrinsic awareness; Filter the intrinsic
awareness to extract Viveka Drishti 3. Clarify the Viveka Drishti to
remain in The Tattva … The Absolute
- Become of "Paramatma", then bhajan starts unceasingly, the 'karta'
has become of God. Our problem is that at "subtle ego level" we
continue to be of world, hence thoughts of world are automatic.
Change YOUR EGO from "I am of world" to "I am of God" !
- remembering God and not expecting anything, just unconditional
love for God. No expectations, no desires(even for salvation) lead
to anhilation of "me". Without "me", all six enemies (anger,
jealousy, etc) have no footing.
- Search withIN you with love on Sri Krishna Roop, youR problem ends.
- all Questions drop - whatever needs to be known is known.
- living in the present, Now and here.
- sense of Doership disappears
- Intense, choiceless Love blossoms in the Heart. The Mind bows to
the Heart, to that Love.True love is understood . Judgement stops.
Discernment is spontaneous . Argument seems Meaningless. Discussion
is only out of Love; for the seeking Heart.
- Words become Fewer
- True Seeker yearns for the Truth, HERENOW. No prolonging. Minimum
Discussion. No argument. No imposition. Acceptance of everyone's
Being ( SEE 1 Above ),
- and finally... drop all Knowledge
- longing for God is Existence Gift
- for the self; and it is the self , which chooses to die to the
self , to
realise the Self. when it
arrives, it knows that it has not yet arrived .. he, who Knows,
knows now , that he does not know.


1. Only responses that further clarify Gita message will be posted.
2. Quote Gitaji/scriptures wherever possible..
3. Limit personal feelings, opinions, beliefs etc. to the
extent that they further help in understanding the Gita shlokas
4. Be as concise, to the point, respecting sadhaka's time.
5. Focus on subject at hand only.
6. Do not include links to the other sites.
7. Do not include your personal information (Ph #, address etc).
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9. All responses may not be posted.
10. Moderator at his discretion, may modify the posting.
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Provide English word bracketed.

Ram Ram
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Friday, March 27, 2009


surinder attri
se ghiri vo teri rah nihar rahi.

--- On Wed, 25/3/09, surinder attri wrote:

From: surinder attri
Subject: {UnitedHinduFront} Re: It was a national humiliation.....
To: Unitedhindufront@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 25 March, 2009, 8:55 AM

1. Regarding American Indian Intellectuals’s support of Varun Gandhi.
2. My Take:
Varun Gandhi is the “ First “ Hindu Leader, who has the daring & backbone. It take guts to speak up to the bullies of Islam. He ( Varun Gandhi ) is Celestial-Miles away from, the “ gutless “ and “ chicken “ phoney-liberal Hindu leaders.
3. The murderous teachings of Quran, are blatantly directed against the Kafirs ( Kafir-Hindus included ). A few verses below:
a . Murder those of the disbelievers ( Non-Moslem Kafirs )… and let them find harshness in you ( 9: 123 )
b. Make war on the infidels who dwell around you
c. Make war on them ( that is, on the Kafirs ) until idolatry is no more, and Allah’s religion reigns supreme ( 8: 39 )
d. When the sacred months are over, slay the idol-worshippers ( and Hindus are idol-worshippers ), wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them.
And so on and on.
4. The above directives from the war manual of Islam ( Quran ), which the Moslems follow diligently, plus the 1200 year history of Islam’s barbarism against the Hindus of India, set in order the future-potential of, colossal barbaric violence against the Kafir-Hindu.
Varun Gandhi did no mention Moslem or Islam, but he did put the enemies of Hinduism on “ clear “ notice that, let alone slaying or besieging of the Hindu, if any one raises even a hand against the Hindu, then he will “ take out that hand. “ This is not an offensive statement, but a defensive one.
If instead he had said that:
If some one slaps the Hindu on one cheek, the Hindu should show him the other cheek, that is not Hinduism, that is Christianity, but even Christians do not practice this. This would not make the Moslem undergo a behavior change, but instead would make him cut open Hindu’s both cheeks. How thoughtless & stupid ?
5. What Varun Gandhi is saying is this:
He is Not going to take any Sh** from any Moslem. Other Hindus should say the same .
He is a Gutsy-Hindu, we need more like him.
Surinder Paul Attri

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 5:05 PM, surinder attri wrote:

By S.P. Attri ( USA )
1. The people of India ( and of the world ) in general, and of Mumbai in particular, have just beheld, the nauseating-face of Islamic-Terror in Mumbai. The silky-soft & pussy-footing approaches of the UPA government, have brought the repulsive face of Islamic-Terror to several Indian cities, the most recent one is the city of Mumbai. Terrorists continue to attack India, because India does not retaliate. There is also the question of composite culture & secularism ( in reality it is pseudo-secularism ), on the basis of which the UPA government is trying to bring about Hindu-Muslim Unity in India. The non-violence school of UPA is trying to solve the problems of India, on the basis of this theory. Wave after wave of terrorist attacks against the cities of India, is the consequence of this bankrupt theory, the latest episode is the nightmare of Mumbai, the UPA government is to blame, but Indians particularly the Hindus & the foreign tourists, had to pay the price for UPA's incompetence.
2. Has the UPA government solved the problem of Hindu-Muslim unity ?
Hardly ! They have done no such thing. They are making such a fetish of Hindu-Muslim Unity, totally ignoring the reality, which is that to a Moslem, Hindu-Muslim Unity means, the subjugation of the Hindu Majority by the Muslim-Minority, the way it had been during the period of Islamic Rule in India.
Islamic Clergy talks of Universal Brotherhood, but what comes out of Islam is, that any body who is not a Moslem, shall not be admitted into this brotherhood, most likely he shall have his throat slit.

3. How can you live peacefully with a religion whose principle is Intolerance, which says blatantly that Kafirs ( Non-Moslem Infidels ) shall not be tolerated ? How can you live peacefully or have composite culture with a people, who follow a religion that teaches intolerance of those who do not subscribe to their religion ? How can Hindu-Muslim unity be arrived at when, Moslems go on converting Hindus practically all over ( Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India…Kashmir ), while Hindus are advised not to convert any Moslem ?
Can the Moslems be made tolerant & harmless ?
Not a chance, in the spectrum of possibilities !
The kind of teaching & preaching that the Moslems receive, from their Mullahs & Maulvies eggs them on to wars. Like Christians, they have engaged in religious wars for 1400 years, they are not about to abandon their profitable business, of Islamic-Propagation & Domination through Jehad. Islam was born in blood, it survives through blood-spilling, and it shall continue its blood-letting as long it survives or is allowed to survive.

4. In spite of historic examples of Islam's mammoth-barbarism, the UPA types have chosen to ignoring the stinking record of Islam, hurt the Hindu, and appease the Moslem. Some blatant examples of Anti-Hindu Bias of the UPA types & of its ineptness are:
a. It was Manmohan Singh who tried to grant pardon to Afzal Guru ( a convicted-terrorist ), his UPA cohorts were talking politely to relatives of terrorists, for getting some Moslem votes.
b. UPA government has totally failed to stop illegal migration of terrorists, across the border from Pakistan & Bangladesh. In fact, the UPA types have colluded with Muslim League, Majlis, & Islamists of Assam. Thousands of Pakistanis coming to India as visitors, never return to Pakistan on expiry of their visas. UPA government does not even know where they are, let alone take any action against them.
c. Because of its incompetence, the response of UPA to Mumbai-Terror, was slow, confused, and inefficient. The forces initially sent to the scene were inexperienced police officers, many of them were killed. It took them ( UPA ) some time to grasp the scope of the attack. The terrorists had killed over a hundred & wounded three hundred, before the skilled Commando forces of the military ( MARCOS & NSG ) were deployed.
d. Several local Moslems helped the terrorists, who not only provided them shelter, but also showed them around places & police stations. The widely held view is that, terrorist foot-prints go back to Pakistan.
e. The performance of Indian Intelligence agencies, both at state & federal level, under UPA watch, has been pathetic.
f. And so on & on.
5. On account of superficial knowledge or total ignorance of Islam ( and its hatred of Kafirs ), on the part of UPA types, & its chosen profession of vote-bank politics, they are dooming the Hindu population of India for sure.
The ignoramuses of the UPA bunch have totally failed to realize that, the Moslem terrorists are not just following the dictates of a commandant. Their master is Allah, and they are doing Jehad in Allah's name. All Kafirs ( Non-Moslem Infidels ) are their target, all infidels are equal ( equal-Kafirs ). Unless this fact is clearly understood by the Hindus ( and by the democracies of the world ), they cannot stand together to confront Allah's Mujahideens.
In attacking Mumbai, the Moslem-Terrorists attacked the Dar-Ul-Harb of India. They need no permission to attack a Dar-Ul-Harb. Islam allows Moslems to kill all those who are not of their religion. Quran clearly states:
" Kill the infidels if they do not become Mohammedans. They must be put to the sword. "
The anti-national gang of India, comprising Leftists, UPA types, and Phoney-Liberal Hindus, have all contributed to the act of, bold terrorist Jehad on Mumbai. These ignoramuses blame the dreadful terror practiced during Jehad ( Islam's Holy War ), on the actions of some misguided Moslem youth, rather than tell it like it is, that is:
Islam is a cruel & cunning scheme of terror. Islam goads its followers, with the promise of a beautiful Janat ( Islam's Paradise ), with its luxurious surroundings & wildest sex with 72 Houries for each Moslem. This is a cunning promise of Islam, which motivates Moslem youth to secure followers of Islam, through terror, torture, and treachery ( the tools of Jehad ). A Moslem treats Jehad as the most sacred duty.

6. The five Non-Jehadic pillars of Islam, provide no guarantee to a Moslem, for entry into Janat ( Moslem's Paradise ). But Jehad, which requires a Moslem to murder, maime, and mutilate Non-Moslem Infidels ( the Kafirs ), provides an Absolute-Guarantee of entry into Janat.

Says one Hadith:
" Leaving for Jehad in the way of Allah, in the morning or evening, will merit a reward better than the whole world, and all that is in it. "
Another Hadith says:
" The martyr will desire to return to this world, and be killed ten times for the sake of the great honor, that has been bestowed upon him. "
" Paradise lies under the shades of swords. "
" Acting as Allah's soldier for one night in a battlefield, is superior to saying prayers for 2000 years. "
" He who travels to participate in Jehad, the dust he encounters in the process, shall become fragrance for him, on the Day Of Judgment. "
7. In the Nightmare that has just visited the city of Mumbai, the dark vision of Islamic-Terror, has come upon India & on Hindus in particular. The details of Hindu's Future under the UPA government, are not difficult to predict. No Indian and certainly no Hindu, should have any illusions, about the competency of the UPA government. UPA needs to be thrown out !
Surinder Paul Attri

On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 11:26 AM, wrote:

It was a national humiliation

Arvind Lavakare

Arvind Lavakare may be 71, but the fire in his belly burns stronger than in many people half his age. The economics post-graduate worked with the Reserve Bank of India and several private and public sector companies before retiring in 1997. His first love, however, remains sports. An accredited cricket umpire in Mumbai, he has reported and commented on cricket matches for newspapers, Doordarshan and AIR. Lavakare has also been regularly writing on politics since 1997, and published a monograph, The Truth About Article 370, in 2005.

Hang your heads in shame, my countrymen. Do it because a dozen-odd terrorists traveled 500 nautical miles of the Arabian sea from Karachi to Mumbai's Gateway of India, just opposite the grandiose Taj Mahal Hotel and proceeded to humble the city of 16.4 million into utter helplessness for over 48 hours even as over 125 civilians and some distinguished professional security men lost their lives to the hand grenades and rifle bullets of a fanatical mindset. It was a humiliation worse than the drubbing the Chinese army gave us in 1961.

It was because our motherland, India, is a soft nation, tes ted and proven so several times. Despite the weighty evidence of Clement Atlee, the Britain's post World War II prime minister to the contrary, the Congress party brainwashed the entire nation, including the press, that it was the non-violence strategy of Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi that brought us independence.

Atlee had expressed fears regarding the rage of Subhash Chandra Bose's Indian National Army as a reason for its decision to give us independence; another reason was that World War II had liquidated the British Empire and left it to ration even eggs to the citizens of England. But Gandhi disliked Bose's guts and gumption and Nehru sent the officers of the valiant INA to a secret trial in the Red Fort.

Thus, even as the Congress of Gandhi and Nehru, his pampered disciple, ahimsa, non-violence, became the motto of our motherland. So bad has this become over the last 60 years that today even killing a stray dog on the street, however vicious and sick, has become a crime, courtesy another Gandhi, Maneka by name.

Take the more serious issue of terrorism. Excepting during the Khalistan uprising in the eighties that was ultimately doused by K.P.S. Gill and his brave police force, our country's approach to terrorism has all along been tepid and timid, castrated and impotent.

Because almost all the terrorist acts in recent years have involved Muslims as the perpetrators, and because of the C ongress fetish of appeasing the minority Muslim community at any cost, our soft national psyche inherited from Gandhi, our response to terrorism has become a combination of impotence and vote bank politics sought to be covered by rhetoric and pleas for peace.

At every stage of our every "encounter" with a terrorist act, our collective national response has been reactive rather than active, defensive rather than offensive. Public statements are issued, action is promised. Period. Nothing else really happens.

At the base of it all is the shameful fact that we choose to be confused by terrorism. We are not sure whether to treat it as a law and order problem or as an act of war against the nation. Our elite journalists of the print and TV/radio world are not even sure as to whether to describe those who indulge in an act of terror as "militants" or "terrorists" .

Politicians are, or choose to be, equally confused in this simple matter.

Yes, it is a simple matter because the English dictionary will tell you that a militant is one who confronts, face to face, not one who wears a mask; and this militant does not wield an AK 47 or throws hand grenades or detonates a bomb with remote control mechanism.

Further, we have had the phrase "terrorism act" well defined in one of our Constitutional documents right from 1985.

Called "The Constitution (Application to Jammu and Kashmir) Order", it empowered Parliament to enact any law to prevent "terrorist acts" and went on to define "terrorist act" as "any act or thing by using bombs, dynamite or other explosive substances or inflammable substances or firearms or other lethal weapons or poisons or noxious gases or other chemicals or any other substances (whether biological or otherwise) of a hazardous nature." By corollary, the perpetrator of a "terrorist act" is a "terrorist If you get your concepts right; the right action will follow --- provided you love your country more than your political party or your own advancement in political circles.

Tragically, that hasn't happened in our country so far and is unlikely to ever happen till, heaven forbid, a colossal and unbelievable act of terror paralyses the entire country into a daze.

Just recall some events of recent years. The UPA government that came in 2004 quickly repealed the Prevention of Terrorist Act (POTA) which the Vajpayee-led NDA government had introduced after the ghastly attack in December 2001.

It was not withdrawn because of its stringent features but because it was allegedly misused against the minorities (read Muslims). The basic fact was that the Congress, which heads the UPA sarkar, wanted to appease and win over the Muslims with one more lollipop.

Amusingly enough, any call by the BJP for the re-introduction of POTA or some such tough law is counterattacked by the Congress. "Did your POTA prevent the attack on the Akshardh am Temple?" they ask.

Forgotten in this child-like question is that it was POTA that secured the conviction of Afzal Guru. Forgotten is that the acceptance of a confession to the police as evidence (considered a draconian legal provision) was what led to the conviction under TADA of Rajiv Gandhi's assassins.

In several other areas as well, our successive governments have failed to act in ways so crucial to minimize, if not totally stop, the reign of terror that now occurs so frequently that from a tragedy it has become a joke for the cynic.

Take the policing of our urban areas which are the focal points of terrorism. Lt General Sinha recently disclosed that in the last sixty years after Independence the number of police stations in the country has increased by a laughable 15 per cent over the figure of 12,000 that existed then.

In contrast, he says, our population has increased four times in that same period even as policing has become so much more complex than before.

Further, whatever police force available is overworked but underpaid, apart from being manipulated and exploited by their political bosses. That is why, at least Mumbai's policemen, and policewomen , look so unfit, almost obese, and so blank in face.

Ditto with our Intelligence force. Marginal increase in their strength has occurred, but assignments include assessment of likely performance of the rulin g party in the coming elections. And why the National Security Advisor should have been involved so much in the Indo-US nuclear deal as he actually was is a mystery.

Then there's the human rights industry and our politicians' concern for it much beyond national interest. And there's that impractical concern for "guilty beyond reasonable doubt" even in matters of terrorism. If cockroaches had votes and rats had a religion, our politicians would enact a law prohibiting killing of those two living species as well.

Imagine the People's Democratic Party of Jammu & Kashmir granting pensions from government to families of slain terrorists. Imagine, the Prime Minister himself disclosing his sleepless night over the plight of the mother of an Indian Muslim held in police custody in Australia on suspicion of being involved in a bomb blast but not over the plight of mothers of thousands of his innocent countrymen killed in terrorist violence.

Imagine two Cabinet Ministers oppose the ban on SIMI despite the latter's proven guilt. Imagine one Cabinet Minister wanting all illegal migrants from Bangladesh to be given full citizenship rights, when it is well-known that many among them have links with terrorists. Imagine another Cabinet Minister approving of a University vice chancellor's decision to deploy funds provided by a foreign government to be utilized for the legal defence of two of his University s tudents accused of involvement in terrorist violence.

Imagine, lastly, that amounts running into thousands of crores have been spent on the Haj subsidy for Muslims but the security of our very long coastline on the west is so ill-funded that terrorists can come from Karachi across the Arabian Sea to Mumbai without being spotted.

Contrast all of this is typically indolent-cum- idealistic- cum-selfish Indian attitude to the stark realism and patriotism of the USA when 9/11 occurred in 2001. One thing that nation did shortly after that dastardly day was the enactment by the USA Congress of what's come to be known as the USA Patriot Act. That nomenclature is really an acronym, and the full name of that legislation is "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001". If a name can arouse emotions, that one certainly does. And however draconian that law has been, it has prevented the recurrence of 9/11.

Unless the whole young nation of ours forgets non-violence as a magic mantra and unless our politicians show a commitment similar to that of the USA to engage in a literal war against terror, we shall continue to allow just about a dozen-odd terrorists to humiliate an entire nation for over 48 hours, even as a naïve Prime Minister calls the Pakistan chief of intelligence to share info with us.


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