Wednesday, June 23, 2010



Re: Re: [gita-talk] Service Before Self has made our country-men devoid of self-respect!


---------- Original message ---- ------
From:"agrasen"< >
Date: 24 Jun 10 03:38:21
Subject: Re: [gita-talk] Service Before Self has made our country-men devoid of self-respect!

The point raised by Lajmiji is quite clear and specific. The whole idea of service without self and our complete non-attachment to things worldly, has led to where India and Hindus stand today, i.e. Bharat has been invaded by the Moslems, British and everyone else; it has been divided into three pieces already and is on its way to further division, complete breakup in small pockets, islamization and as a result of our Hindu philosophy of no-desire, non-attachment, etc. etc. we are already being ruled by the Moslems through one family, as a fox in the garb of a lamb.
Is this what is acceptable to Swamiji that in a few decades or years, India becomes a Moslem country, just like Afghanistan and other countries, etc. Is that for which is the Hindu philosophy?
How on earth the Hindu philosophy, which we and everyone admires very much, has helped prosper India and the Hindu religion? Or is there some good going to come out of it in the opinion of Swamiji?
The Hindu philosophy would appear to be an other-worldly philosophy and perhaps we have no right to live on this earth planet respectably and should accept slavery at the hands of any invader, which has proven time and again from our history of thousands of years.
Is this the Hindu religion of which we are so proud? I suppose Swamiji should be able to answer these specific questions? Does Swamiji and other saints expect a miracle to happen to save Hindus by following its naiive and docile philosophy?
It is something like when your house is on fire or your near and dear ones or your countrymen are being shot, you do nothing, have no attachment, have no desires, and simply watch the game of your destiny!


On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 2:03 PM, sadhak_insight wrote:

Dear Sir,
You are perhaps seeing the good of all,when you wrote about "The Importance of serving"...
Unfortunately however recent happenings all over the world,show that this Importance of Serving, as taught by you and most of our philosophers is interpreted as servility...and the unassuming nature that our philosophers encourage,together,have perhaps resulted in Indians,over the centuries,
becoming a servile race...and treated as such all over the world...
Therefore,either this philosophy should be adapted to correct this sad image of Indians,in general, in this bad,wicked,greedy and immoral modern world.
Witness how servile and I daresay "stupid",our Foreign Minister and Foreign Secretary and thereby the Indian Govt., and Indians as a people, come out on TV,for the entire world to the face of bluff and bluster and most of the time,total lies,by Ministers and Secretaries of Other Countries...... !
Would you not do something to change/shed this image that we seem to be so proud of...? !
The entire world mocks at us...we keep pontificating while innocent Indians are persecuted and even murdered in Australia,the US,Russia,Europe,England especially a country we seem to adore even now...
Will you still continue preaching this "service before self" etc., philosophies even now...
Or would you now like to modify your pontifications in keeping with recent happenings in this world,or would you still say ..."Never mind, continue serving them,show them the other cheek too ..." ? !
Has our facile philosophy made our country-men devoid of all self-respect, scared and impotent ?
With kind regards,
Yogesh Lajmi.

Shree Hari Ram Ram
thank you for bringing up your concerns. To help address the issues you have raised, it will first be beneficial to point out specific statements that Swamiji has made that you need further explanation or understanding off? What particular points were you troubled by? Neither Swamiji nor anyone can respond to generalizations. Kindly share specifics. Thank you!
Gita Talk Moderators, Ram Ram


|| Shree Hari ||
Ram Ram

23rd June 2010, Wednesday, Jyeshth Shukla Dvadashi, Budhvar

Vikram Samvat 2067,Sri Krishna Samvaat 5236

The Importance of Serving - 2
The sentiments of serving will bring about detachment. If you fulfill your duties, do what is righteous, and serve others, then you will develop dispassion - "Dharma te birati jog tein gyaanaa" (Manasa 3/16/1). Just like Swayambhu Manu attained freedom from worldly desires by taking care of his subjects and doing what was beneficial for them, without any self-interest, and following the righteous path.

Hoyi ne vishaya biraag bhavan basat bha chauthpan;
hrdayam bahut dukh laag janam gayau haribhagati binu (Manas 1/142)

On developing detachment, he went to the forest with his wife. He ruled the kingdom for the benefit of the people, therefore he developed detachment. If he were to rule the kingdom for himself, then he would not have developed detachment. Wherever there is desire to take something, there is attraction that manifests over there. Attraction is an impression of delusion. The main way to recognize delusion is - "raago lingambodhasya". He who has attractions, is deluded.

Serving with a desire to take from the other, causes a connection , an affinity of "me" and "mine" with the body and things . He who does not even want to be acknowledged as one who serves, rather is only interested in seeing how the other person can be made happy, how they can get rest and relaxation, how something good and beneficial can happen for them, for all this only, he sees how all can be made happy with the body, mind, speech, wealth, knowledge, intellect, abilities, position, rights etc. In their mind is the sentiment that may all be benefited, such a person attains salvation.

Just like while while trying to stay afloat in the water if you pull the water towards you then you will drown, but if you push the water away from you with your hands and feet, then you will be able to stay afloat and not drown. And he who wishes to give and given only, he never drowns.

God and his devotees (saints and great souls), without any cause are the kind to serve everyone.

"Hetu rahit jag jug upkaari; tum tumhaar sewak asuraari (Manasa 7/47/3)

Therefore they are never bound. Why would they be bound; Simply by beholding them, man will be liberated! Because in them there is no selfishness. They have nothing to take from anyone at all. There is no desire to return a favor. Therefore by serving one will not get bound.

Question: Bharat muni out of compassion adopted the baby deer, but in his next birth he became a deer, why so?

Swamiji – First Bharat muni's aim was to only serve, but later on he developed attachment for the baby deer. The attachment became so intense towards the baby deer, that if the baby deer was not to be seen sometimes, he would become anxious in that separation, just like someone is anxious for his son. He used to remember how the baby deer used to play, how it used to climb into his lab, how he used to talk, how he used to want to be caressed, how he used to jump around and dance with joy – in this way, he used to remember him often. Due to this delusion and attachment, in his next birth he ended up becoming a deer, but not out of compassion.

His delusion and attachment was not out of compassion, rather it was out of mistake. As such the delusion was there from the beginning, that very same delusion took the form of compassion and manifested. It is due to delusion that one is bound. When there is submission out of compassion then one does not get bound.

If someone who is 80, 90 or 100 years old and he dies then one does not feel so sorry; however if a 25 years old youth dies then one feels very sad. Now think as to what the reason is behind this. The elders and grown-ups are very knowledgeable and wise and experienced. Their study is deep, therefore a lot more can be gained from them; then too one does not feel sorry when they die because now there remains no desire to take anything from them. Within the sentiments remain that now there will be nothing gained from them, therefore if they die then no problem. I have personally heard others saying that the death of an old man is like a marriage (an occasion to be rejoiced).

Similarly, a 20 year old man has been ill and bed-ridden for the last five years. All doctors have given up hopes and said he will not live much longer and at the age of 25 he dies, then one does not feel so sad about his dying. The reason is that one feels sad or suffers when there is something or the other to be gained from them, when there is hope of some service. This hope itself is binding. He who does not keep any hope or expectation from anyone, will not be bound. No one can bind him.

When a relative dies, then there is an anniversary event, charity, and some virtuous acts that are done. The meaning of this is that whatever was taken from them, we are repaying that debt, so that the debt is removed. The extent of pleasure that was gained from him, to that extent one remembers him, and to that extent his absence makes us sad.
The pleasures that are gained from feeding a small child while in your lap,the end outcome of that will be sorrow only. Worldly pleasures are the inertness of sorrow. By that pleasure, men will be bound with certainty. If you do not take that pleasure, rather you will only give pleasure, no one will have the strength to bind you. Wherever there is some selfishness or the other, where in the mind there is desire for taking pleasures, rest and relaxation, honor, fame etc., there it self is bondage.

Many years have gone by since I have been giving lectures, but where is the inertness of bondage, this I was unable to grasp quickly. Later on I came to know that the desire to take something or the other itself is inertness of bondage. It is such a rare point! If you become happy seeing anything in this world, then this too is experience of pleasures and will be binding.

If you desire favorable situations then sorrow will definitely come. Therefore at all times remain alert not to take pleasure from anyone, not to take rest and relaxation, not to take honor, not to take praise from anyone. We do not want to take anything from anyone at all. Where to take, there you will be trapped! Simply one must give and only give. One must serve and only serve. By serving the old debts will be paid off and by not desiring to take, new debts will not accumulate and we will be liberated.

From book "Saadhan, Sudha, Sindhu" in Hindi 181 by Swami Ramsukhdasji.

The same message is available in HINDI titled "Seva ki Mahatta - 2" at:

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